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Author Topic: F-4 Phantom II  (Read 1327 times)

Offline cpxxx

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F-4 Phantom II
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2006, 07:24:01 AM »
I saw that German F4 video before, great stuff. German pilots are crazy :aok
Some of the most spectacular flying I've seen has been by Luftwaffe or Marineflieger pilots mostly Tornados. They often come to airshows in Ireland and are always one of highlights.  I used to work overlooking an airbase. The day after an airshow a Luftwaffe Tornado performed the traditional goodbye flypast down the flightline. I wish I had a video, it was ten to twenty off the ground at a very high mach number.  Apparently it set off every burglar and car alarm in the nearby town. Spectacular but crazy Germans.:O
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2006, 08:14:34 AM »
The Phantom is sertainly beautiful in its own way, and could take punishment well i belive.
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Offline 1K3

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« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2006, 03:53:33 PM »
Israelis used the F-4s in war and made them effective, but US record of F-4s (along with F-105s) were no good against MiGs :(
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Offline JTs

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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2006, 05:49:44 PM »
F4 U.S. Governments proof to the world that given a big enough engine a brick will fly. rode in the backseat from okinawa to da nang  10/70
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2006, 06:17:01 PM »
saw the T-birds perform in F-4's at the USAFA graduation of 1972. Best show ever.
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Offline Rino

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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2006, 06:27:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Israelis used the F-4s in war and made them effective, but US record of F-4s (along with F-105s) were no good against MiGs :(


     The record of US F4s had alot more to do with the Charlie Sierra ROE
in Vietnam than fault with US pilots.  For example, the most famous
incident refuting your statement would be...

Operation Bolo
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Offline Rino

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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2006, 07:34:41 PM »
Fortunately for us Phantom Phans, the USAF has refurbished about 4
QF-4 drones back into F-4E configuration for use in Heritage Flight.

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Offline Rolex

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F-4 Phantom II
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2006, 08:00:41 PM »


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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2006, 11:37:09 PM »
Rolex,

You look less smart the older you get.............

Either that or you have a significant problem associating things properly.


:p
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Offline Grayeagle

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F-4 Phantom II
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2006, 11:59:15 PM »
F-4 rolling:

Has ailerons, but also spoilers .. so rolls aren't exactly symetrical.
(spoilers drop lift quotient on one wing ..with no corresponding boost of opposite wing lift)

For rate of roll ..the Rhino winds up.
Initial roll input even slammin the stick alla way over (only in the maneuvering envelope .. cause that stick don't slam at *all* at mach numbers) ..results in only 'some' aileron-spoiler displacement . . as the air flow changes during the roll, more aileron-spoiler comes out ..roll rate accelerates.

If you are in the maneuvering envelope, and you hold full deflection with the stick past ~270 degrees of roll.. she will make yer head spin for a fact :)

-GE (clean, with no iron hangin in the breeze, the Phantom is quite a joy to fly at ~350ias.. er ..or so I hear) (no .. I never flew one or in one .. I did however spend a lot of time in the F-4 sims here an there.. for fun :)

..and the Thunderbirds in F-4's ..they scared the CRAP outta crowds with that sneaker comin over durin the show ..the F-16 is amazin .. but .. the Rhino was just an awesome performer ..the gut-vibrating formation pass just isn't the same in the Vipers.
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Offline Rino

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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2006, 12:50:49 AM »
For any of you guys that like Phantom pictures, have I got the site for
you!

Phantoms
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Offline Rino

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« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2006, 01:01:25 AM »
Way way back, I used to work on the pointy end of this bird.
I always liked the Euro 1 camo better than the spinach ones they had
when I first got to Moody.

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Offline bozon

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« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2006, 01:10:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 1K3
Israelis used the F-4s in war and made them effective, but US record of F-4s (along with F-105s) were no good against MiGs :(

That's because MD forgot to put a cannon on it initially. It was added in later models and that's why it's located in the strange buldge below the nose, instead of sunk into the body. The majority of kills in the IAF were using the cannon.

In Lebanon 1982 it got only 1 kill as F15/16 were doing all the air-to-air work. The one that got the kill was flying formation with escorting F15s (iirc) and spotted a low mig. He dived on it without radioing anything to get a head start...

in the 90's IAF was operating a localy modified, very improved version, named "kurnas 2000" (jackhammer 2000). The engines and all the avionics were replaced. It got an air-to-ground radar that allowed imaging of ground targets and modified to carry precision bombs and advanced A-to-G missiles.

Last two squadrons were closed 2 years ago.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2006, 01:12:30 AM by bozon »
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Offline AquaShrimp

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« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2006, 02:59:34 AM »
The F-4 was not maneuverable compared to other fighters.  I've read three or four books just on air combat in Vietnam.  Heres the F-4s downfalls and heres how the problems were solved:

Poor maneuverability- Pilots switched to vertical tactics
Poor visbility-  Wingman tactics and staying fast
Poor missle performance- Special training schools for pilots/ use of sidewinder

The pilots did the best they could with the wrong equipment for the job (The F-4).  Top Gun taught pilots to use 2 on 1 tactics against Migs (mostly Mig-17s) in order to win.  

The saving grace for the F-4 was that migs usually didnt even carry missles.  Only rarely did Mig-17s carry atol heat seakers.  The F-4 needed about 1500 yards seperation to stay out of cannon range.

In a horizontal fight, the F-4 pilot could go vertical, depart the plane momentarily and use cross-controlled rudder and ailerons to do a sort of strange hammerhead and get the nose pointed on or ahead of the Mig.

It could take 3 to 4 seconds to set up a radar missle lock on a Mig.  The average time a Mig stayed in the pilots windscreen was .5-1.5 seconds.

So in summary, flying the F-4 required pilot training above and beyond average training to make him competent.  Without this additional training, (Top Gun), F-8 Crusader pilots excelled at air to air combat.
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Offline 1K3

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« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2006, 03:49:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
For any of you guys that like Phantom pictures, have I got the site for
you!

Phantoms


daaamn look at those dials and switches:eek:
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