Tomorrow

[Boroda]

Originally posted by mietla
Yes, it was shown here and I do remember the general story, but I think that it was reported here as a "bloodless" affair. Even the coup leaders were not executed. It is inevitable that when tanks fire at the buildings some people will die, but the cold blooded executions, it's news to me.

Leaders were arrested, but a lot of people who were in the White House (parliament building) were taken to the stadium and simply shot. AFAIK they shot everyone who was caught with arms.

I hope you understand that this information never reached media.

Originally posted by mietla
BTW, you've used  the term "followers of the constitutional power". Who were they? Civilians? Military troops? Special forces?

Mostly civilians. Ordinary citizens.

Special forces refused to take part in this bloody circus. Yeltsin and his defence minister used all possible means to make some army units support them. Lies and bribes. Army also tried to avoid involvement, from direct inobedience to covered sabotage when executing orders.

Originally posted by mietla
Was it a commie constitution that they've defended, or was it a post commie constitution?

Commie constitution had only one article that made it "commie": about "leading role of Communist Party", but this article was abandoned in 1990. In fact it was an ordinary democratic constitution like in most of European countries, and as the result of the 1993 coup it was replaced by a current one, that is far from perfection, but is really perfect when you need to cover up the real state of affairs when the country is run by "democratically elected" crooks and thieves.

[mietla]

So, even the russian media did not report executions. I can buy that.

So, what are the major differences between 1990 and 1993/current constitutions?

What in it (or lack of what in it) allows this "cover up the real state of affairs"?


BTW, what happened to the leaders of the coup? Were they released or are they still in a can?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by mietla
So, even the russian media did not report executions. I can buy that.

A massacre in Ostankino was filmed by several TV channels, including foreign. At least one operator was killed there. Imagine BTRs fireing 14.5mm machineguns at the unarmed crowd, that came to take control of the TV center... Hundreeds killed, the video is stunning, a lead shower literally...

Originally posted by mietla
So, what are the major differences between 1990 and 1993/current constitutions?

Renamed Parliament from Supreme Counsil to Federal Assembly, abandoned a vice-president position and some minor changes, that allow tricking with election laws and some other nice stuff for dummies at the top.

Soviet Constitution wasn't bad at all. They needed to get rid of it to legitimate Yeltsin's power as the only master of the state.

Originally posted by mietla
What in it (or lack of what in it) allows this "cover up the real state of affairs"?

Too long to explain. All the changes since 1993 are aimed at abandoning all social programms and satisfying new masters desire to steal and rule, making them not responsible for any actions.

Now we have another stage, when Russian people (80% of population) are declared the only criminal fascist nationalistic force, and people buy it!...

Originally posted by mietla
BTW, what happened to the leaders of the coup? Were they released or are they still in a can?

All the leaders of the both coups were released, no punishment, amnesty. The only one, general Varennikov, insisted on a fair trial so he'll be found guilty or not, he refused from amnesty, and was found not guilty.

[mietla]

thanks for the info Boroda.

[mietla]

One more thing

The only one, general Varennikov, insisted on a fair trial so he'll be found guilty or not, he refused from amnesty, and was found not guilty

that is actually interesting. Clearly he did not deny his involvement in overthrowing the government. What was his defense? That the coup was legal? That couldn't fly, could it?

I bet his refusal to take amnesty and insistance on a trial pissed Yeltsin big time.

What was public's reaction to the amnesty. A relief that the whole thing is over, or a rage that the perps get off the hook? I bet there was a split in a society, but the way you present this, the public supported the coup and Yeltsin was the guy in a black hat.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by mietla
One more thing

that is actually interesting. Clearly he did not deny his involvement in overthrowing the government. What was his defense? That the coup was legal? That couldn't fly, could it?

I bet his refusal to take amnesty and insistance on a trial pissed Yeltsin big time.

What was public's reaction to the amnesty. A relief that the whole thing is over, or a rage that the perps get off the hook? I bet there was a split in a society, but the way you present this, the public supported the coup and Yeltsin was the guy in a black hat.

Yes it pissed Yeltsin. It reached the media, it was somewhere in between rat palgue in Uryupinsk and a militia officer bribed in Muhosransk. Free media, you understand. Public was more interested in survival in 1990s.

Amnesty didn't bother anyone. And it was becoming obvious that wrong people are in prison.

In fact - 1993 was not overthrowing government, it was all according to Constitution: Yeltsin dismissed parliament (that he couldn't do) and Parliament impeached him, declaring a Vice-President general Rutskoy a President. BTW, Rutskoy is an Afghan war weteran, shot down in his Su-25 by a Pakistani F-16, traded for captured terrorists, a Hero of the Soviet Union. Now according to our election laws he is literally banned from politics, he was a governor of Kursk, and then excluded from ballots when he wanted to be re-elected.

Too much tryping, I have to go now

[dmf]

Originally posted by lukster
Works for me but I bet some bleedin' heart lib will complain.  

We're just gonna hafta be craftier next time.

We can't, we went to teh Gevena Convention, and we play by teh rules of war ( whatever that is), They ae a bunch of barbaric killers, that have no quams about killing anything or anybody that they think is against them, eventheir own.


Oh By The Way, its after Aug 22nd, wheres the great Iran at to light up Isreal's sky?............................. .................
yea I didn't think so