P-47m

[Raptor]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It's amazing the number of people who live in glass houses who persist in throwing rocks.

You've heard the saying "don't throw stones if you live in a glass house." Well I don't agree with that, I don't think anyone should throw stones, it's not very nice. My policy would be... don't throw stones regardless of housing situation. There is an exception though... if you are trapped in a glass house and have a stone at hand... then by all means throw it!
So my policy is....
Do not throw stones regardless of housing situation, with the exception that you are trapped in a glass house and have a stone. It's a bit longer but it's a work in progress.

- Demetri Martin

[Krusty]

LOL I saw that.

I need to change my sig. "So you see, at a certain point it doesn't matter how cute you are, I don't wanna hear about your damn cat!"

[Spikes]

true, we need new planes...not models...b25@!

[Major Biggles]

benny, it's 7:38 here, just got home, tried getting in your room but it's full. i'll try again til 7:45, if i still can't get in perhaps we'll do this another time. hope you get this message before then so you can make some room

[Benny Moore]

Spikes, the P-47D we have in game is hardly representitive of the real airplane, especially for late in the war.

Biggles, you there?  I've got my server up and I'm booting everyone I can find an excuse for booting, but it's still full a lot of the time.

[AWwrgwy]

Well?

Film?

Thank you,

wrngway

[Benny Moore]

Right, here it is.  Current score is two for me, one for Biggles.  It's only fair to him to announce that he was flying heavy (full fuel) and hung-over, and only fair to me to state that the first fight I was not ready for, even though I said I was.  I was trying to bleed off my energy advantage as we merged.  Biggles is the better flyer, but I still maintain that the P-47D doesn't have a chance (especially the later two) with equal pilots.  [Link]

[Major Biggles]

yup, sober and reasonably rested now, i've arranged to fly with benny again today. in fairness to benny he's actually a very good pilot, much better than i thought he would have been as an H2H pilot. he has a good mix of aggression and intelligence in the way he flies. once the 47 got slow the 38 was always just out of reach.


unfortunately i was too tired to fight last night, had to duck out after the third round, too much drink not enough sleep this weekend, just exhausted. still not fantastic today, but much better and good enough to give a fight my attention.


however benny, we should try some historical matchups as you suggested, as well as some fun furballs. i have a strong feeling that the 47 will eat 190s and earlier 109s for lunch. 109k at the end was a little much for my fried brain last night




you mentioned spit16, i think this might be fun. we should try some different rides. was fun flying with you, you're a challenge, you don't give any angles, but as soon as it started going my way you'd get smarter and play by your own rules, by which point i was too slow to catch you

looking forward to tonight

what time were you thinking? 3:30 eastern?

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by Major Biggles
however benny, we should try some historical matchups as you suggested, as well as some fun furballs. i have a strong feeling that the 47 will eat 190s and earlier 109s for lunch. 109k at the end was a little much for my fried brain last night

That's my point; Me-109K versus P-47D-40 isn't fair at all, but it's the closest thing we have to a historical matchup involving the 109K, since the P-47N never went to Europe.  And that's exactly why we need a P-47M.

Today I will try flying the 109 I usually take when I fly the Messerschmitt, the Me-109G-6.  I'm certain you'll beat me in that, as well as in the FW-190A.  But it will be fun!  Spitfire Mark XVI I feel fairly confident I'll win in.

I'm putting my server up right now.  Whenever you want, come in.  I'll try my best to keep a spot open.  Hmmm, my computer's acting a bit funny today; we'll see how this works out.  Right now my computer just randomly froze for about fifteen seconds, twice in a row.  It's never done that before.  I wonder if it has anything to do with my house being very cold because the furnace isn't working?

[Krusty]

Only, the P47s didn't really escort the bombers that much. Not in Europe. They had short legs at first, and then the P51s came into the scene with much longer range, and took over. Sure the P-47s saw plenty of action, but even the 109Gs out-turned P-47s with ease (unlike in this game), and they were thought to be easy prey. The P-47M saw hardly any service, and hardly any P-47 saw action against a K-4.

So why are you saying we need a P-47 to fight the K-4?

We have P-51s to do that (and they do it well as-is), and we have plenty of other aircraft.

[Major Biggles]

thanks for the fights benny, your arena is a lot of fun. it was much nicer flying today, sober and slightly less sleepy

i'll make sure i pop by your arena from time to time

while the K4 was too difficult for the D25, i won our other fights fairly easily, and i'd say that's fairly good proof that the jug can hold it's own just fine, even down in the weeds. K4 was just a bit too fast and light to get a good hit on you. and through all of this, you're a great stick too. the jug can school any plane so long as there's no uber experten behind the stick



! fun fights, looking forward to next time

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by Major Biggles
while the K4 was too difficult for the D25, i won our other fights fairly easily

Oh, come on!  The second time in the Me-109G-6, my controls locked up.  But yes, you did prove that the Thunderbolt is equal to the earlier Me-109.  To be continued ... I, too, cannot wait for our next fights.  I'll post our films here in a bit; right now Aces High is still running so I can't cut them up.

Krusty, that's so wrong I don't know where to begin.  The P-47's escorted bombers very often, just not the bombers going deep into Germany.  P-47s were not "easy prey;" in fact they did better in the air-to-air role than any other United States airplane in Europe.  And lastly, P-47Ds ran at vastly higher boost pressures historically than they do in the game.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Krusty
Only, the P47s didn't really escort the bombers that much. Not in Europe.  

Incorrect.  They did escort bombers quite a bit, they just didn't have the legs to cover some of the longer range bomber escort missions.  Once larger capacity drop tanks were made available, the P-47 was able to escort bombers to and from the target, including missions that were strikes deep into Germany.  They weren't phased out of the long range escort mission because they couldn't do it, they were phased out because the P-51 was able to do the escort job better.


ack-ack

[Major Biggles]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
And lastly, P-47Ds ran at vastly higher boost pressures historically than they do in the game.

yes, but the numbers aren't official, and without official data HTC can't model it, it would be unfair. the same thing could be said about all planes. take the spit16 for example, it typically ran at 25 boost, instead of the 18 we have ingame. imagine a super speedy low alt 16 with a climbrate of over 5700 ft/min and that's official data too! i'm sure with some tuning it would do even more...

the fact is, HTC can only do what's best. they must give as fair a representation of a plane as possible, and without official data and accounts of those being the normal settings, it's just not right to model those speeds




but yes, fantastic fights today, can't wait for the next ones, i'd love to do a 38 on 38 duel with you. next time i won't be in that jug

i don't fly the jug much either, i'm sure blukitty, yucca, platano or redtop could show you a thing or two that i can't

[Krusty]

Sorry if I was unclear. I meant something along those lines. I meant at first the 47s had too short a range, and when they got the range the 51s were already doing it.