The Confederate flag, Heratage or Hate..

[Suave1]

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the
proposition that all men are created equal."

That has nothing to do with slavery ? The fighting that broke out in Kansas had nothing to do with abolitionist ? Ok, and the holocaust never happened .

Remember that the man that shot Lincoln was present when Lincoln suggested that negros should have the right to vote .

Remember the Kansas-Nebraska act, the Missouri compromise ?

It is scary that so many want to believe the lie often propagated that the civil war was not about slavery .


[This message has been edited by Suave1 (edited 02-26-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Suave1 (edited 02-26-2001).]

[AKDejaVu]

Where were all these arguments when the "Dukes of Hazard" was being aired?  A car named "General Lee" with a confederate flag on the roof?

DAMMIT! THAT SHOW STAYED ON THE AIR FOR 3 YEARS! WHERE WERE YOU THEN?  Where were you then?<snif>

 

AKDejaVu

[TheWobble]

 

The civil war was almost solely about slavery

That is such a plie of crap it doesent even warrent a good argument.

[MrBill]

   

Originally posted by Suave1:
"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the
proposition that all men are created equal."

Although I am now certain that this is a fact vs opinion argument, I will close with this.

Question: How many of the men who drafted the words "all Men are created equal" owned slaves?

That has nothing to do with slavery ? The fighting that broke out in Kansas had nothing to do with abolitionist ? Ok, and the holocaust never happened .[/b]

Nowhere have I stated that the civil war had "nothing" to do with slavery! It was just "not" the primary cause of the outbreak of hostilities.  Many (not all by any means) southerners had already freed their slaves, as the economics of the times made it uneconomical to retain them.  There were others (again by no means all nor even the majority) who had sold their slaves.  Any good book on the US economy circa 1855 to 1860 will suffice in this arena.  

Abolitionist, temperest's, abortionist, whomever, when they perceive that they are not winning fast enough to suit themselves find a reason to resort to violence.  Referencing the holocaust, (which has nothing to do with the current discussion) I will overlook, lest we turn this into a thread completely off the subject, another ploy of people posting opinions/beliefs not facts  
   (Just my opinion)  

Remember that the man that shot Lincoln was present when Lincoln suggested that negros should have the right to vote .[/b]

Remember the man who shot Gandhi, the man who shot Garfield, the man who shot whomever, nut cases have no relation to a discussion of facts, irrespective of their personal beliefs or heard voices!!

Remember the Kansas-Nebraska act, the Missouri compromise ?[/b]

Kansas-Nebraska simply gave the people of these areas the right to choose with no interference from congress, (yea right).  

The fact that they chose to begin killing one another is just a testament to humankind's trend to "just kill em and let god sort it out" <sic>  (again just my opinion)

It is scary that so many want to believe the lie often propagated that the civil war was not about slavery .[/b]

<sigh> Shakes head and walks away.


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OhNooo
smile awhile

[This message has been edited by MrBill (edited 02-26-2001).]

[This message has been edited by MrBill (edited 02-26-2001).]

[pzvg]

And Suave1 fails history.
The Emancipation proclamation was mere soppage for the abolition movement, you will note it carefully excludes Maryland, a Union Slave state, Kansas and Missouri were all about an issue, but not slavery, It was about the right for states and territories to self-determine what they would do,without being forced into choices by a central government, slavery was the catalyst for this issue, for the abolitionists knew they did not have enough local voting power to win the issue, they needed to cause enough strife and discord to force the central government to enter into the issue. Anyone who thinks a moment will realize that slavery was rapidly dying out due to peer pressure and economic factors, The South held out on the slave question because ANY retreat on ANY issue would open the door to Federal interference in state government, The allusions to the bad old South are the staple of Hollywood fiction, while slaves were still slaves and there's no getting around that fact, they neither had it as bad in most cases as Hollywood presents, nor was the kind benefactor North a pure as they have been cast, A lot of the Anti-South Pro war hysteria whipped up in the days prior to the war was generated through wealthy people who saw a war as an economic gold mine.
I already know this is a futile arguement to make to people, since most of the world has shown an amazing capacity for both self-delusion and "factgetfullness" as I call it,
but the fact remains, The South and the North went to war over the sundering of the Union, and both sides played the slave question as a trump card, but it wasn't the whole hand.
Now wake up and look at what you're saying, It's OK to blot out history if I don't care for it.
Wait until it's your history that's on the block, then tell me how wrong it is.
Be a tad late then 'tho.

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[mrfish]

i dont believe the civil war was over slavery - from what i have read it was more about the south getting upset over burdensome trade tarriffs with northern states and an overly centralized government.(remember this was not long after the big federalist debates early in the country's history)

really, in retrospect, any good propagandist will think of some noble glowing cause to support his side, but in the end it is ususally about money and power.

most of the drafters of the constitution profited from it because they held federal securities - there is a great book on it from 1913 by some couple - the beards - i forget their first names - it is out of print now i believe and schools wouldnt dare talk about it - but like all great books exposing the truth they face extinction and ridicule-

- heh .....slavery..... the north could have cared less what the south was doing with slaves they didnt want those uppity southerners to determine their own destiny -

in communist russia they slapped some noble meaning on things and played on the easily stirred emotions and the people and they followed like lemmings - they do it in the u.s. too but nobody bothers doing the research - we are too busy waving old glory, swelling with pride and buying everything they say hook line and sinker -

except..... any good ol' southern boy knows what it looks like when a catfish has 'swallered' a hook nice and deep - thats probably why they didnt buy it and stood up for themselves - just because they lost doesn't mean they were wrong -

my guess is that slavery would have been phased out anyway even if the south had won
 

[Eagler]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Where were all these arguments when the "Dukes of Hazard" was being aired?  A car named "General Lee" with a confederate flag on the roof?

DAMMIT! THAT SHOW STAYED ON THE AIR FOR 3 YEARS! WHERE WERE YOU THEN?  Where were you then?<snif>

 

AKDejaVu

There was a car in that show? Couldn't get past the daisey dukes myself  

Eagler