The Confederate flag, Heratage or Hate..

[TheWobble]

I was just watching a bunch of people (predominantly black) burning a Confederate flag and saying that all it stands for is racism and hate, and saying it is no different than a swastika.
 
This brings an interesting question.  The confederate flag stands for the south..way back when south had slavery..doesnet now...so does the confederate flag directly represent slavery?
if yes whats to keep from saying louisina represents slavery, texas represents slavery..? they are just as "southern" as that flag if the confed flag represents racism, well then a southern accent should too right..its southern..?

I find the biggest reason (excuse) for people who think the confederate flag should be BANNED is that they argue that it represents a army that was fighting a war for slavery..  Some people think that the sole cause of the civil war was slavery, it wasnt, in fact slavery had almost no effect on the reason to go to war.  It was a miriad of other things like TAXES (mainly taxes) and the way the northern more industrialized area pushed rules on the southern area which was more farming and cattle and the likes, obviously the way things are run in a heavy industrialzed zone will differ vastly from the way things are run on a farm, washington ignored that fact and kept pushing rules and regulations on the south that made life very difficult, for instance northerners made more money than southerners in general (faremers)yet the gov decided that they have to pay the same $$ amount of tax, which to alot of southernes would consume 1/2 or more of their income, where as the more wealthy average joe in the north wasnt hit as hard.

in other words, slavery was the least of souther reasons to not agree with the north.

side note: just because the north didnt have slavery didnt mean it wasnt HEAVLY segregated, the north was just as racist as the south as far as considering "negros" as subhuman, they just didnt belive in owning the per say.

None of this is my opinion btw its just data that I learned in school and see in books/history channel..etc so no flames pls.


My personal opinion is that the flag can mean many different things to anyone, to some it may represent distrust in goverment (common southern thinking of the time) or it may represent being a rebel (rebelling as the southern states against "big brother")
to some it may represent their southern roots, and of course to saome it may remind thatm that for a time long ago the south had slaves.  Well i dont think benning it is really fair because.
A: it doesnet directly represent ANYTHING accept the south.
B: the north had slaves LONG before the south did (another fact that is often ignored)
C:if everything that offended anyone was banned, there would be 2 tv channels and both would be preview giude, and everyone would have to act/look/dress/talk/think the same, because a different opinion might be "offensive"

OH and BTW when you tear down someone's flag and burn it.who is doing the Hating?

[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 02-19-2001).]

[Tac]

"does the confederate flag directly represent slavery"

From my experience here, every time one of those flags is in a house or as a sticker in a car, people comment "there goes a redneck"

The people have spoken  

[SwampRat]

The Confederate Flag will always be someones symbol for something.  It won't be banned because banning it would immediately result in hundreds of thousands of criminals, not to mention an encroachment upon ones constitutional right to free expression.  I do understand WHY some want to have the flag banned, or removed as state flags, and my reaction to that is "GET OVER IT"..the Civil War, while not completely caused by slavery, did put an end to it at a cost of more lives lost than all the wars since combined.  But most importantly, slavery has been a dead issue for over 130 years. I for one would much rather see this kind of effort put into banning the garbage that the New York Museum of Art (or whatever it's called) keeps putting on display, that stuff while called art, is nothing more than some dink artists attempt at getting attention by irritating and offending as many people as he or she can, something entirely differen't from someone hanging a confederate flag up out of pride from being southern.  BUT...there goes the Constitution again, free expression is free expression.

[TheWobble]

 

From my experience here, every time one of those flags is in a house or as a sticker in a car, people comment "there goes a redneck"

ROFLOL!!!!
 

yea that is sad but true, but does having that ugly thing make the a racist?

[TheWobble]

 

garbage that the New York Museum of Art (or whatever it's called) keeps putting on display, that stuff while called art, is nothing more than some dink artists attempt at getting attention by irritating and offending as many people as he or she can,

Hey!! if I want to make a clay statue of Richard Nixon sitting on a rainbow eating a midgit and put it on display its my right!

     

[Sancho]

You are correct Wobble.  Saying that the confederate flag is a symbol of slavery is an ignorant oversimplification.  The southerners seceded because they viewed the federal government as too large and meddling in states' affairs too much.  Slavery was just one of the issues (albeit probably one of the biggest) that they felt the federal government shouldn't have the right to control.  They were for limited federal government... one that provided for national defense, mail system, and little else.

The average rebel soldier didn't own slaves.  Why should Johnny Reb risk his life and fight to protect a rich landowner's right to own slaves?  Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves before the war because he believed slavery was wrong (may have been another prominent rebel general, but my unreliable memory tells me it was Lee).  Union General Grant continued to own slaves through the war!  President Lincoln himself said he was fighting to preserve the union, and that if he could avoid fighting but keep slavery, he would have done it.  He didn't issue the emancipation proclamation until 1863, 2 years into the war.  And remember, this only freed the slaves in areas still part of the rebellion... northern slaves where abolition had not taken effect were still slaves.

It's too bad some $h1thead KKK losers fly the confederate flag at their rallies.  I understand how that can incise the african american community and minorities (I am a Mexican-American).  But c'mon, this is a historical flag... nothing more.  It is no more or less evil or symbolic of slavery than the Stars and Stripes.  Our nation had a long and unfortunate history of slavery, long before the civil war.

Many southerners see the Stars and Bars as a symbol not of slavery, but of a strong, independent South.  People have the right to love it or hate it, but that doesn't mean we need to go around banning it or hiding it from view.  Seems like a bunch of wasted energy to me when there are so many other worthy causes to pursue.

My US$0.02.

[Staga]

15-20 years ago you could see lots of Confederate flags here in Finland; It was used as a sign of people listening certain type of music (Rock'a'Billy).
I saw lots of them when we were beating watermelon out of those greasy-rockers in their parties  

Now I can listen Crazy Cavan and Ray Campi without need to hide from my friends  

[TheWobble]

Ya Sancho, some folks seem to really twist the hell outta the civil war dna the flag and everything else just to suite their agenda.  They take an unfortunate socal problem "slavery" and twist it into "all white peaople hate all black people" and the confed flag is our battle flag against the negros.  And the whole time they keep preaCHING THE WHOLE EQUALITY THING. hOW CAN YOU EXPECT TO BE CONSIDERED "EQUAL" AS THEY PUT IT IF YOU RUN AROUND BEING A FLAG BURNING RACIST TARD! (sorry i put that in all caps, accident but too lazy to type it over.)  

[-lynx-]

 

I for one would much rather see this kind of effort put into banning the garbage that the New York Museum of Art (or whatever it's called) keeps putting on display, that stuff while called art, is nothing more than some dink artists attempt at getting attention by irritating and offending as many people as he or she can

Hehe - can't agree more. Me/gf went to the Tate's Modern Gallery on Saturday - 95% of the stuff is complete and utter c**p .

[Kieren]

Seems to me in a democracy they could add a checkbox to the ballots in a state election. Simple majority rules.

[Yeager]

For me the Confederate Flag represents several states rebellion against the power of the Federal Government.

Right or wrong its a good thing for the people to remember.

Y

[Mighty1]

I disagree!

If I want to have a Confederate flag on my flag poll screw what anyone else wants.(I don't by the way)

Just because someone's ancestors were slaves does not give them the right to tell me what flag I can fly.

I've never owned any slaves nor have any of these people ever been slaves so they should just get over it.

This is just more Politically Correct BS that's running rampant in our country today.

[CavemanJ]

American by birth, Southern by the grace of God.

I'm proud of my southern heritage.  I dinnae if my family ever owned slaves or not, and I really dinnae care.  I can't see as how it makes one bit of difference either way today, except maybe for the NAACP wanting to accuse me of trying to hold the black people back because of something I had no say in.

Too bad most of the really loud/visual "rednecks" have used the Confederate flag and given in a generally negative reputation.  And I'd have to say it's the klan members who are probably most to blame for the current thinking that the Stars'n'Bars represents slavery.  They love to fly it, though I dinnae think they fully understand the significance of it.  IMO they could use some more schooling on the Confederate States of America.

Heard on Paul Harvey news a few days ago that Georgia is changing thier flag.  He said on a 3'x5' flag the Stars'n'Bars will be the same size as a dollar bill.  Going from 3/4 of the flag (state seal on a blue field was the 1/4 closest to the poll for those who've never see the 'old' GA flag) to being the size of a dollar bill is an insult IMO.

IIRC South Carolina's state flag was the Stars'n'Bars, period.  Heard they changed it under pressure from the NAACP and the likes of JJ.

When all this flag changing mess started it was the topic of discussion at a party.  One guy was spouting the party line of insulting his heritage with a symbol of a war over slavery.  I informed him (not too politely) of my opinion about the level his idiocy had reached and told him to quit insulting MY heritage and go study that war again since he missed most of it.

It's all rediculous, but I guess the NAACP ran out of high visibility targets they can point to and say "we're doing this for OUR people" (irregardless of anyone else's heritage they may insult in the process).

[Ripsnort]

I work with two African Americans who are conservatives...they think the Conferate 'flag waving' fiasco is rediculous and as Cave stated 'just another party line for those who make money off of stirring up hate'.

My opinion is this: If it is indeed 'insulting' someone, by all means take it down...after all, those people will eventually be finding yet something else that they feel is justified for their cause, and the repetious drumbeat will begin to fall on deaf ears eventually.

[Gunthr]

I agree. Seems like much ado about nothing. The NAACP has lost prestige by getting involved in non-issues like this where common civil rights already provide remedies.
 
Don't like the flag? Don't fly it. Want to burn it? By all means, burn it! (as long as its yours to burn) Don't like your local government flying it against your wishes? Vote the rascals out. Or not. Black Americans do not need the NAACP in order to assert their rights in cases like this.

The NAACP also trivializes itself by automatically attempting to apply political pressure on behalf of any black person who faces discipline with their employer and contacts the NAACP, regardless of the merits of the case. I'm not sure how their mission statement reads, but I seriously doubt that focusing on these types of non-issues further their cause.

Gunthr