Low lvl buff

[soupcan]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
A majority of buffs in the MA have a singular focus on the path of least resistance. Up to minimum alt to get your bombs off (something like 2 or 3 hundred feet at speed

buffs at 300 feet? bring em on!.........

heck be it an osti, a8 or il2 ... easy kill.

please don't tell the masses not to bomb low alt......

i need the score padding:D

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by soupcan
buffs at 300 feet? bring em on!.........

heck be it an osti, a8 or il2 ... easy kill.

please don't tell the masses not to bomb low alt......

i need the score padding:D

I generally can't hit them enough times in an Osti to kill a bomber.

[Stoney74]

Two comments:

1) Skip Bombing...

Quote from "12 to 1, V Fighter Command Aces of the Pacific":

"...When using a bomb load of only one 500lb'er slung under the belly, my approach is a shallow dive at about 370mph, levelling off at around 50' and letting her go..."[P-47 pilot]

It wasn't a special bomb that allowed them to skip.  The fuse was a 4-5 sec. fuse so when the bomb impacted, it didn't go off in their face.  It was a GP bomb.  While it may "skip" when it hits the ground, the fuse and delivery angle is what works the magic.  The same technique is called "lob bombing" today.  Watch some video footage of the Argentine Air Force going against the Royal Navy during the Falklands.  You'll see some excellent examples of what would have been called "skip bombing" in WWII.

If you've got a different source, I'd be happy to learn something...honestly. I can provide more if you need...

2) Para-Frags...

Para-frag bombs exist to create drag on the bomb, that's it.  They aren't parachutes designed to let a 250lb (or bigger) bomb "float" to the deck from 25K.  All they did was slow the bomb down just enough that it impacted behind the delivery aircraft, clear of the frag pattern. Accuracy wasn't really an issue, since they were typically used to crater runways.  Most delay fuzes were used for the same reason--cratering runways or allowing the aircraft to avoid its own blast.  If the length of delay was limited to 5 seconds or less, it wouldn't throw game play all out of whack.  Plus, you limit it to bombers that actually conducted low level hits in WWII, like the B-26, A-20, etc.  I guess I'm not thinking like a Aces Quake player--I can't imagine a way to "game the game" with that type of setup...Coding it, is an altogether different issue...

[Stoney74]

More on skip bombing...

Quote from "Valor", an article in Air Force Magazine

"Promising experiments with skip bombing were under way in the US, based on RAF experience. Lt. Gen. George Kenney, commander of Fifth Air Force, was enthusiastic about the new technique. The 63d Squadron of his 43d Bombardment Group set to work in September, testing skip bombing with B-17s against a wrecked ship in Port Moresby Harbor. Approaching the target at 200 mph, aircraft released bombs at 200 feet or lower, about 300 yards from the hulk. The bombs would skip across the water into the side of the ship--if airspeed, altitude, and range were properly coordinated. Modified Australian fuzes were used in the absence of suitable US stock."

Later in the war, these attacks were conducted primarily by medium bombers...

Do a google search for "skip bombing"...

[hubsonfire]

If you can't think of ways this could be abused, you're not thinking.

[Stoney74]

Not trying to be difficult Hobs, but...

Honestly, I can't think of how this could be abused.  What are you thinking?

[hubsonfire]

Well, let's consider the favorite pasttimes of the MA. Vulching and camping.

Swoop down, pepper the runway spawns, or the CV deck, or the GV spawn, or the PT spawn... circle and wait. With the loadouts typically carried by buffs, that's quite a lot of opportunities to vulch without having to stay in harm's way, don't you think?

[Stoney74]

Again, I think the delay should be limited to a 5 second maximum.  Just enough to let a plane clear the frag area.  Also, I don't support the crater the runway idea just in case I was not clear in my earlier posts.  My advocacy is for a short delay fuze for the bombs in order to allow low-level missions that don't frag the delivery plane.

I will say this--from a historical perspective, the catalyst for skip bombing was because of the total innaccuracy of level bombers hitting pin-point surface targets.  Since we don't have that problem, it may be a moot argument.

My only desire for this would be for the medium bomber/attack plane mission.  I've done some work on using the A-20 fast and on the deck.  It works except for I have to gain altitude right before I drop to keep from fragging myself.  There's still some skill involved, as the delay bomb would have to be on the target or else it would do no damage when it did go off.  Its not easy judging the proper release point--I had to practice offline for a while to figure it out.

Its just an idea anyway.  Just a way to expand the scope of the game I guess.  I'm not hellbent for it, just support it in the sense of immersion/historical gameplay.  If it imbalanced the game as it exists now, I would not be a proponent.  And, I'm obviously not creative enough to understand how it would be exploited...

[stephen]

I didnt even check my post but im sure I attributed the bombs ability NOT to explode on the first bounce to the fuse, I was in army ord for 4 years, and im pretty familier with the theory, though my only source on skip bombing is and old rerun of wings where they had a camera set up in the tail of a b25 and those bombs where just a bouncing...lol...... Im not refuting anything im just letting out a long winded "I know!!"

Now the dam busters where a special adaptation, however we have no current need for a dam busting bomb......I was simply trying to allowing for everyone's follow up posts, writing in here and not being thought of as a fool, or getting caught in some misspeak is tough.....I get it,...you have a nak for looking stuff up...... its been explained that parafrags would allow or the distruction of a town,,,or the destruction of planes taking off, or would hurt gameplay if craters hurt A/C, well...all im asking for is a speed limit going over those craters, which is logical anyway, and easily avoiding damage is as simple as turning off the runway, of course the craters would be repairable, and the same resup rules that apply to hangers and the like could handle a couple of speed bumps im sure...

as for the skip bombs, {or the fuses that would allow normal 500lb bombs to skiplol} well they are rather underhanded in attacking cv's....and thats why I want em, the affect of both types of bombs on the target are secondary to the fact that by virtue of the low altitude from which they can be dropped, a twin eng bomber could carry a usfull load without having to stray up into radar coverage.....sorry if this line of thought is offensive,well actualy no im not....

[stephen]

I totaly agree 5 seconds is more than ample to escape the blast radius of say a 500lb bomb... anything more would lend itself to missuse.

[MadSquirrel]

The whole problem with this can be summed up in Success vs. Survivability.  As things are now, low level pork. . . . I mean Bombing is somewhat restricted because the blast effect will kill the buffs.  This tends to keep the reputable buff drivers off the deck because they want to live.  But now you want to take away that deterrent.

OK, Buffs come in at tree top level over a field.  There are Ostwind up.  By the time enough hits are landed on the buffs to even take a wing off, they are gone off the field with maybe one or if lucky two buffs down.

Give me some 40mm Bofors or the 50mm Flak guns that will kill a buff in 1 or 2 hits or some 88mm Flak Batteries then you can promote low level buffs.

Name                   Date      Cal.       Rate of fire          Ceiling in Meters

8.8-cm Flak 41     1942      88mm    20                       15000
5-cm Flak 41        1941      50mm    130                     9000

I don't foresee HTCs "Solution" as was posted being anything near a fix for the Bomb-N-Bail dweebs or the Dive Bombing Heavies.  Special ords for these dweebs will encourage new dweebs not make game play better.

LTARsqrl  <>

[Stoney74]

My two cents on the dweebs:

Delay fuze bombs won't affect dweebs at all.  Regardless of if they come in high, low, or on the deck, they will expend all and then auger/disco/bail.  I've had it happen at 20K, at 2K--we've all seen it happen.  It will continue to happen.    HTC didn't design GV's in the game so folks could vulch a runway with a Tiger--but you can if you want to.  You could make the argument that if HTC took away GV's, no one would be able to do something so unrealistic and "gamey".  I personally don't think that is justification to deny folks that want to play an immersive style the ability to do so.

[LYNX]

Stoney & stephen

Look guys it's a VERY bad idea that your trying to promote / advocate.  Every SKILL - LESS TOSSER will be in low alt bomber dropping watermelon loads of of your fan-fuugin-tasting delay bombs on hanger then ack staring or bailing.  IT'S counter productive to game play ffs.

I (not try to be a smart arse) would hazard a guess you don't see many low level bombers on towns or hangers because your to busy doing it now. Then your trying to find a more accurate way to do this "GAMEY" crap and servive the bomb blast.

Just learn to pork with ords in a P47n 75% fuel 2 x 500's 10 x rockets and dive in on enemy base from 10k.

Otherwise be patient and bomb from alt.....stop being lazy:furious

[stephen]

I realise your only posting for the new folks, as you are repeating everything youve said before,allowing a fuse with a 1to 3 second delay is not going to allow anymore affective vulching of nme planes than bombing an airfield does now,

I regret you hate this so much, even though its been talked to death Lynx I would really like to know how a para-frag, a skip bomb, or a 1to 3 second delay fuse is going to upset this game so badly?

just give me a couple examples...please, heck if what im asking is a terrible idea ill admit it... of course one or two of the above ord options may not have the negative affects of the other two, be fair, take a couple minutes to explain it to me.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by LYNX
Stoney & stephen

I (not try to be a smart arse) would hazard a guess you don't see many low level bombers on towns or hangers because your to busy doing it now. Then your trying to find a more accurate way to do this "GAMEY" crap and servive the bomb blast.

Just learn to pork with ords in a P47n 75% fuel 2 x 500's 10 x rockets and dive in on enemy base from 10k.

Otherwise be patient and bomb from alt.....stop being lazy:furious

Why is that the assumption?  I guess someone can only advocate for things that will make the game easier for them?  I'm a proponent because its a historically accurate tactic/armament--period.  Here are some other things I'm a proponent of Lynx:  only receiving perk points for landing/living, getting rid of easy calibration, wind in the MA, reducing icon range, getting rid of range on the icons, increased puffy over strats and airfields, restrictions on DAR BAR range, limitations on continuous military power, engine failures caused by too much WEP, etc.  I think its a shame that its easier to sink a CV with level bombers at 8K than dive bombers coming in at 12K.  Those things don't make MY game easier.