So Much "Fuzzy Logic" Coming from the Libs...

[funked]

 

Read the Consitution people.
Get a grip.
If Bush wins the recount... game over.
Gore had better concede then, or he's going down in history.  And it won't be for inventing the Internet.

[Nash]

Erhm.... so whats THIS thread about?

[1776]

Frustration at the Democrats, I'm sure

[Nash]

Ya think?  

[1776]

Am positive

[Cabby]

What Funked sez is correct.  Al Gore's time is rapidly dwindling where he can lose gracefully.  

I always knew Gore to be a desperate man who do anything in his quest for power, including destroying the US Constitution.  Of course, he had a great teacher in Bill Clinton.

It's time for Gore to go away.

Cabby

[Nash]

Cabby,

With all due respect, the vote in Florida is being recounted due to no action of Gore - it happens to be that pesky Rule of Law thing y'all seem to get yer shirts in a knot about.

Now - we have about a 300 vote difference. Yet there are plenty of uncounted overseas votes out there. Easily enough  votes to swing this either way. You want to dismiss those voters and null their right to participate in this election?

In essence,  what you guys are telling me is that despite Gore's popular vote victory (so far), and his lead in the Electoral College, and this slimmest of margins in Florida, that you think he oughta just  walk away from an election process that IS STILL UNDER WAY.

I find that position absolutely arrogant.

Funked, Cabby, etc - I think maybe YOU guys ought to take a look at the Constitution thank you very much.

[easymo]

 I'm not a big fan of Bush or Gore. But I have to say my opinion of Gore went down the toilet. That's a go place to find out what his word is worth BTW. He conceded the election. I don't much care what his reasons for doing so were. If it was a screw up, so be it. A man does not go back on his word.

[CavemanJ]

easymo that's a major point no seems to want to publicize too much.  You certainly won't hear the pro-Gore media hyping Gore's concession they way they're hyping the mistakes and inability to read or not taking thier right/duty as seriously as they should down in PBC.  Gore conceeded.  Period.  End of election.  10minutes before he was to make his concession speach he renegs.  As Curly Bill Brocious probably would've said, Gore crawfished and then drilled the country in the arse.  

The recount in FL is done.  Hasn't been made official, but it's done.  The AP polled the election supervisors and Bush came out 327 ahead.  Granted that's not much, but Bush won.  And Gore is nuts if he thinks his salvation is going to arrive in the form of the absentee ballots, which will be added to the total next Friday.

Gore blew his chance to bow out gracefully.  FL law triggered the recount, and Gore jumped on it high and hard, going back on his word in the process (nothing new there).

Nash most of those absentee ballots you're saying are enough to swing things either way are gonna be military votes.  General consensus I've gotten from talking to people around here (I live at SuBase NLON) is that most military folk think Bush is the man for the job.  The lead in the electoral college means nothing.  There are 25 votes hanging in the balance with the delay in FL.  Whoever gets FL gets the presidency, plain and simple.

And as far as it goes, Bush won the recount, and the absentee ballots will just widen the gap.

[Cabby]

Nash:

You are wrong.  The votes HAVE been recounted.  The OFFICIAL count is +900 for Bush.  And now begins a HAND recount.  Which is an OPEN invitation to fraud.  I guess we recount until the Dems get the numbers they want???  And who is threatening dozens of lawsuits???  Who is throwing their weight around down in Fla.???  Who is acting like a bully dictator???

There will be discrepancies in EVERY SINGLE COUNTY in the USA.  Nothing new in that fact.  Shall we re-run the election???  And what about the egregious action of the Media in calling Florida for Gore when the Polls were STILL OPEN in Fla. with only 1% of the vote counted???  Did the scurrilous Dems have any hand in that OUTRAGEOUS action??

The fact is Gore lost, but his tremendous ego, and disregard for the good of the Country, threaten to destroy the very foundation this Nation is built upon.  In my mind, Al Gore is rapidly on his way to proving himself a coward and a traitor.

Al Gore is a disgrace.

Cabby

[Nash]

Sheesh Cabby, don't get all weird on me. Egregiousness! Scurrilousness! A traitor in our midst! Oh the OUTRAGE!
 
Y'all can say what ya want, but mostly your emotional outbursts/reactions to this whole mess are completely void of any obective examination of reality. And your points are getting burried in these little spats. Your not children; if you've got something to express, by all means express it, but please make an effort to divorce yourself from the tendancy to sound like snot-nosed little brats.

Hehe that felt good  

Anyways.

Cave, I agree with you on something. The off-shore ballots probably *will* go to Bush, and the recount of the ballots probably *will* maintain his lead in Florida. And after this becomes appearant, I beleive Gore will concede. Take a deep breath here - Bush will probably end up in the White House.

Ok?

What most of you fail to realize, it seems, is that this is an historic election of the magnitude never seen in the history of the entire United States. You simply have GOT to allow the election to run its course. In fact you have no choice in the matter... so quit yer belly achin' and let the election run its course.

By some WILD fortune, it turns out that in Florida some 350 odd votes are seperating the loser from the leader of the free world. 350 votes! Un-diddlying real.

So y'all are trying to tell me that, for example, the off-shore ballots (and I don't give a rat's bellybutton WHO they've historically gone to) should, despite the natural election process, be TERMINATED? You blame a recount process that is also mandated by voting law. And you want to dismiss these things out of hand when there is a 350 vote difference? That's right... who gives a toejam... "Gore get the hell outta the way will ya? Yer complicating things. Yer making me angry." And yet the complaint I hear is that the *democrats* are the ones who want to change the rules.

Allow me to offer you a tissue.

This aint a damn poker game. This aint "I saw her first so she's mine". The point that Gore informed Bush that he will concede based on information from sources that y'all have chastised over and over again, is to reduce this election, and democracy itself, to triviality.

Incredible.

If you have any sense of responsibilty, you will at least try to seperate yourself from the venom that has been brewing for the last 8 years. You will at least try to respect voting law. You will appreciate the process of Democracy that is the inspiration to people all over the world.

There are a few people whove tossed in their two cents here that I *know* have better sense than that. I understand the anxiety here, but still, shame on you.

[CavemanJ]

cabby the +900 is 65 of 67 counties reporting I think.  The AP called each county to get the "unoffical" results, and the final tally had it for Bush by 327 votes.

I'm personally against the hand counts, and think they shouldna be allowed to change the outcome, because of simple things like human error and people fudging the numbers a little.  Gore supporters may include 50 votes here, 25 there, 75 over here, while Bush supportors counting ballots may do the exact same thing.  At least the computer dinnae fudge like that.

Nash, I full realize historical importence of this election.  It also does a mighty fine job of demonstrating just how important every single vote is and why we have the electoral college (Gore has 19 states, Bush has 29, but Gore has the popular vote by 200k).  This election also shows that voting is not a whimsical, fly by night game.  It's a very serious endeavour to be treated with reverence and thought about very carefully.  This includes taking an extra minute to carefully read the ballot, seek out your candidate, and ask for help if you need it.

As far as I'm concerned it's past historical importence and gone way too deep into ripping this nation in two.  Gore conceeded the race, then 5-10min before making his concession speech he calls Bush and retracts the concession, effectively going back on his word.  That's wrong IMO, plain and simple.  You can not re-enter a race after you quit, especially at the finish line.

The recount results are in, and Bush won by 327 votes, even if it's not offical yet.  Gore grasps for another straw by asking (demanding??) a manual recount, which is ALOT more error prone than the computer recount (see my remarks above).  Instead of simply leaving the automatic recount alone he starts slinging crap.  I can see each side sending a delegation to FL to watch, but I can't understand the campaining the democrats are still doing in FL.  Like they can change the vote or something.  I firmly believe they're going to try and force a re-vote, which is biased before it can happen because of all the media exposure.  IMO Gore's only face saving move is to tell his campain people to stop and conceed the race (which he already did once).  To continue this farce will only further divide this great nation and make him out to be the egotistical stunninghunk that he is, only caring for himself and not the good of nation.

[Nash]

Where do I start Cave?

"It also does a mighty fine job of demonstrating just how important every single vote is and why we have the electoral college (Gore has 19 states, Bush has 29, but Gore has the popular vote by 200k)"

Here again you demonstrate your (and excuse me) ignorance of the election process in your own country. I'm sure others here will be happy to enlighten you on this if you choose not to do any research on how the "Electoral College" actually works.

You certainly won't hear the pro-Gore media hyping Gore's concession they way they're hyping the mistakes and inability to read or not taking thier right/duty as seriously as they should down in PBC

The New York Times (as just ONE example), who in fact put their support behind Gore, has come out repeatedly stating that this was a gross miscalculation. Who is this "pro-Gore" media I often hear reffered to? I'd actually like to know where some of you are getting YOUR information. (honestly - please point me to your neutral sources - I'm interested).

As Curly Bill Brocious probably would've said, Gore crawfished and then drilled the country in the arse.  

What?

The recount in FL is done. Hasn't been made official, but it's done. The AP polled the election supervisors and Bush came out 327 ahead. Granted that's not much, but Bush won.

I guess this leads back to my question of where some of you people are getting your information. It is NOT done. All the ballots aren't in, and arent required to be in for another week. And this election hasn't been certified yet, not even close. Cave, it's either ignorance or you are guilty of trying to mislead us. Which one is it?

Nash most of those absentee ballots you're saying are enough to swing things either way are gonna be military votes. General consensus I've gotten from talking to people around here (I live at SuBase NLON) is that most military folk think Bush is the man for the job.

Wow.... Hey listen Cave - can you pick my Lotto numbers next week? Yer obviously able to see into the future. At least your trying to say that you, Cave, are able to singlehandedly render the votes of many of yer countrymates null and void based on these extraordinary powers of yours. Shut up and let their votes be heard ok? Is that acceptable to you, oh great swami.

[Nash]

And Funked, getting back to the topic of this thread, "Fuzzy Logic", I beg you to call me on any "fuzzy logic" you think I've put forth.

I'll repeat what I said at the top... I have no idea what what you were getting at when you posted this. Fuzzy thread, I reckon.

"Read the Constitution"  - ok yah, done that (and it's a *huge* document).

"Get a grip" - don't know what you are trying to say here.

"If Bush wins the recount... game over" - Not untill everyone in that State has had the opportunity to have their votes at least *registered*.

"Gore had better concede then, or he's going down in history. And it won't be for inventing the Internet." - I agree.

[PC]

Nash,
you may not understand just how high passions are about this. When I was in your country this summer, I did ask questions about your political stuff (the gun ruling had just come down) but I didn't offer opinions about it. I guess what I’m getting at, is maybe you should leave the US  folks to “discuss” this and if you feel the need to add to it offer some humor here and there to lighten things up.

PC