Whining about play degradation?

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Dichotomy
Murdr can I be a junior furballer now?

Ya might want to run that one past the self-proclaimed "Ruler of all that is Furball"

You might know him better by his other title...."Public Relations Officer for the BK's"

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Murdr
Ya might want to run that one past the self-proclaimed "Ruler of all that is Furball"

You might know him better by his other title...."Public Relations Officer for the BK's"

[lazs2]

ya know... there are two different subjects not just one.

You may be getting them confused because they both involve a lot of the new guys.

one subject is a lack of skill do to inexperiance.   this is not a problem to me... or not much.   In a furball I get killed by some of the least experianced guys from time to time when my mediocre SA is overwhelmed.  the fact that they are there is GOOD  and I don't mind killing or being killed by em... it is slightly annoying if they allways take the HO but that is no big deal and they will learn to moderate that.

the second part is.... gameplay.   This is much more important and what most of the "vets" are complaining about.   Many newbs are not trying to learn but simply join the whorde and....safety in numbers... they never even try to get better.... substituting "taking bases" for air combat.   Huge squads of em form... they (these "squads")will take anyone who will do what he is told and become a cog.

Gameplay is, in my opinion, not even the fault of the newbie.   He is timid not because he isn't good or wants to get better... I don't think people have changed over the years... he is timid cause he has no choice.

with the fields so far apart...  a newbie quickly learns that he is dead meat going out looking for a fight on his own... he rarely finds a furball where he stands a chance of learning some fighting skills.

FT is a good example of gameplay that works... that allows people to have fun and get good tho... lots of newbies go there and die but... they have a good time and they learn more in an hour than they learn in 400 bop "missunz".  

Closer fields would help gameplay..... better gameplay would be better for everyone.

Trainers and other players can teach some moves but no one can teach the SA you need in the arena.   You only learn that by doing it.  If you want to get your feet wet in some real excietment... leave the Whorde... go to FT and mix it up.... die and kill... learn.... heck... ask to join someones plane who IS doing it if you can't leave the potatod womb just yet...

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[mars01]

ya know... there are two different subjects not just one.

You may be getting them confused because they both involve a lot of the new guys.

one subject is a lack of skill do to inexperiance. this is not a problem to me... or not much. In a furball I get killed by some of the least experianced guys from time to time when my mediocre SA is overwhelmed. the fact that they are there is GOOD and I don't mind killing or being killed by em... it is slightly annoying if they allways take the HO but that is no big deal and they will learn to moderate that.

the second part is.... gameplay. This is much more important and what most of the "vets" are complaining about. Many newbs are not trying to learn but simply join the whorde and....safety in numbers... they never even try to get better.... substituting "taking bases" for air combat. Huge squads of em form... they (these "squads")will take anyone who will do what he is told and become a cog.

Gameplay is, in my opinion, not even the fault of the newbie. He is timid not because he isn't good or wants to get better... I don't think people have changed over the years... he is timid cause he has no choice.

with the fields so far apart... a newbie quickly learns that he is dead meat going out looking for a fight on his own... he rarely finds a furball where he stands a chance of learning some fighting skills.

FT is a good example of gameplay that works... that allows people to have fun and get good tho... lots of newbies go there and die but... they have a good time and they learn more in an hour than they learn in 400 bop "missunz".

Closer fields would help gameplay..... better gameplay would be better for everyone.

Trainers and other players can teach some moves but no one can teach the SA you need in the arena. You only learn that by doing it. If you want to get your feet wet in some real excietment... leave the Whorde... go to FT and mix it up.... die and kill... learn.... heck... ask to join someones plane who IS doing it if you can't leave the potatod womb just yet...

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[SIZE=10]BINGO![/SIZE]

Newbs are not bad, vets in unopposed potatods are!

[Docc]

The game play is the way it is not so much because of lack of training of noobs, but because HT wants the rules set the way they are and the majority who play the game are willing to accept those rules or else they quit.

If HT wanted closer fields or game play changed he would have done it years ago.  Instead, he is catering to a new generation of players to prolong the existence of HTC for years to come while the older players just fade away.

Bottom line......make your own map for approval by HT, deal with life in AH as it is, or quit and find another game to play.

[hitech]

Hmm the fields have always been the same distances apart from day 1 as they are now.

And the game has not realy changed, laz and mars have. Quite frankly they are flowing a very classic player pattern.

Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, Figure out new and chalanging things to do to gether, still having fun.
Step 4. Few friends leave, play less, still have fun on ocation.
Step 5. Rembers the fun they used to have, log on for that fun, but can't seem to get that all encompasing, time passes by hours and feels like minets feeling anymore. But they still hold out hope for that feeling.
Step 6. Feeling just dons't realy come back, Start blaming everyone else and the game for them not having that feeling any more.
Step 7. Become vocal about yourself not having fun. Try to persuade everone else that you not having fun is all there fault.


I have seen this cycle repeated over and over with people. Most people tend to retire at 5. And only a rair few ever make it to step 7.

What I have never figured out, is how HTC should deal with the step 7 player. Let them complain, or take action and just end there suffering.

HiTech

[Birddogg]

Originally posted by hitech

What I have never figured out, is how HTC should deal with the step 7 player. Let them complain, or take action and just end there suffering.

HiTech

With more frequent game updates.
Its a win win situation.

[SlapShot]

Hmm the fields have always been the same distances apart from day 1 as they are now.

You may have specified a min/max distance between fields from day 1, but not all maps are equal and not all maps have the same distances between fields.

What I have never figured out, is how HTC should deal with the step 7 player. Let them complain, or take action and just end there suffering.

What do you mean by "action" ?

[Hawco]

FSO and snapshots/ Scenarios are really good, I use the MA for messing around in, the real stuff ( for me anyways) happens in FSO etc.

[Kuhn]

Is there no way to counter a hoard? Yes there is.
I have seen it done and scored big!
Do yall think they complain because theyre boared?
FSO is great !!!

[mars01]

What he means by action, is should he terminate their accounts and PNG them for life.

Step 3. Have gained some friends, Figure out new and chalanging things to do to gether, still having fun.
Step 4. Few friends leave, play less, still have fun on ocation.

Step 6. Feeling just dons't realy come back, Start blaming everyone else and the game for them not having that feeling any more.

Step 7. Become vocal about yourself not having fun. Try to persuade everone else that you not having fun is all there fault.

Well HTC you can't be more incorrect about me and you are WRONG.  You base your above steps on the fact that the challenge is gone and that is why I am sour.  But in all honesty, when I started this game furballs were the norm and Air to Air combat was the focus.  Maybe that wasn’t your intention but that is what I saw.  Furballs are no longer the norm and the game play style I and many of us enjoyed is becoming a thing of the past.

You can keep your head in the sand a pretend that is not the case and throw the likes of myself and Laz and others into the crusty old vet bucket, but you will still be wrong and still be killing a user base that wants to play your game.

As we have said before, make it so furballs exist by design rather than by chance and you will never hear a bad word on the subject from me again.  Fighter Town maps have given many of us a place to play again, but you don't seem to recognize that.

Maybe you have been away from the MA too long and that is understandable with betting the company on CT.  But honestly you are wrong when it comes to me and Laz and many of the other loyal vets that you have lost for the same reasons.

I respect you and your game, if you want censorship and mindless automatons playing your game, then fine.  

If you think mindless potatods running away from each other and taking undefended bases are good for the game then fine, say so and I will leave that alone.

Tell me you have abandoned the Air to Air combat game I signed up for 4 years ago and I will leave this alone.

[Delirium]

Originally posted by hitech
And the game has not realy changed, laz and mars have. Quite frankly they are flowing a very classic player pattern.

I don't remember seeing 10+ guys attacking an undefended base and one sector away the other team doing the exact same thing, with such frequency as I see today.

It has been worse in the past, most notably with the fuel and fighter hanger destruction... but now, it is more player driven than game mechanic driven.

What can HTC do? I'm not sure what HTC can do, like I said, its player driven timidness... aside from disabling scores and disabling any rewards for the reset (and I can imagine the whines from that), there is no answer.  

I feel players need to make the change themselves (through trainers and vets setting a good example), but it would be nice if HTC could at least acknowledge the issue, even if they can't fix it.

[Kuhn]

Yes the attacking of undefended bases is stupid when there is one to defend. I do not agree with that style of play because it booring. Is there no way to create furballs or more air to air combat without changing the rules or layout of the game? What happened to the days of chivalry when veteren pilots would call one out for a one on one battle. There has to be a way for that to work.

[mars01]

It's not so much the one on one battles kuhn as much as just large opposing groups fighting for the sake of the fight.

Circa the time I joined furballing was the rule and 90% of the community were there for the Air to Air combat.  The strat and base taking was a small portion of the game and in it's infancy.  

As land grab has become the main focus of the MA, furballing has been left to chance and as the dynamic of land grab has shifted from small teams capturing fields to large unopposed potatods rolling undefended bases furballing had become almost non existant.

Now maps like FesterMA have mitigated the impact of the whordes by moving bases closer together.  Maps with Fighter Towns have allowed those that want to potatod to potatod and those that want to fight to fight and as I see it a win win for everyone.

[Kuhn]

I wish more players would use the AVA. When the numbers are up its alot like what your saying Mars.