New arena format Part 2 - Use this thread, don't open duplicates

[jtdragon]

just a note on my other post on day time play, right now there is less then 120 on in three arenas, this is how its been for the new arenas at this time of day, before the change there would have been 200 by now, that should say something is wrong.

[Simaril]

Kev...

Play styles aside, truth is that the old way had problems -- I think we all have to admit that. The new way has some problems too. We can both make big lists on both sides of the question.

But we can't stop time, and we can't stop change. We cant freeze things at one point; even if we could, how can we pick which point to stop it at? The Old Onez would say go back to AH1 early days, you would say go back to a month ago. Can you honestly say that you're right and they're wrong?

Now about country loyalty. You DO realize that most online games have a "side balancing" option for forum administrators that works just fine, right? Most combat games can flat out force you to change sides to even the experience for all. And even if AH CHOOSES not to do that, there is a huge difference between admitting that the sides will never be exactly equal, and saying they can be as unequal as they want.

Think some more. What if the HTC business plan expected an influx of, say, another couple thousand players when CT opens. That might mean another 200-300 online at a time. If things grew without artificial external controls, the AH2 you liked best would be just as extinct as Air Warrior.

So lets not even consider the "don't change anything" alternative. Ir's not going to happen, because life just doesnt work that way.  Instead, if you don't like what HT's done, try to see it from the company's perspective, not just your own. Suggestions should account for all playing styles, not just the way you want things to be. (And that includes your expectation that you should never change countries. That isnt a right.)

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by jtdragon
just a note on my other post on day time play, right now there is less then 120 on in three arenas, this is how its been for the new arenas at this time of day, before the change there would have been 200 by now, that should say something is wrong.

Your gonna need more sampling data over a longer period of time to try and squeak this by as valid data sampling.

Why do people assume that HTC is not watching this kind of stuff and will or will not make adjustments as time passes ... its called tweaking and HT and Co. are very good at it.

Way too many Chicken Littles running around the barn yard at the moment.

[68Ripper]

Originally posted by HGCeech
Laz i am new to this game,say about 5 months,i came here from FA,because the game had what i and my squad wanted,but its getting to sound like the crybabies in FA,you just seem to downgrade everyone who does not agree with you and the rotton changes AH made.It seems most of the Pilots Like the LW but it needs to have the cap removed so more then 250 can join.I have been flying flight sims since air warrior days and AH seems to be the best out there,but i fly with my mates and as of yet i cant get into a areana where they fly,and that is LW areana.You are being very nasty to a lot of people who do not agree with you,not nice sir.This eny stuff is bad also.I am strickley a Buff driver B17s and B24s,i cant fly fighters ,tried but cant do it.So please use your influence with AH and do one of two thinks ,change it back or take away that eny and encrese the cap on the LW areana..Thanks for your time sir....

What? you didn't get the memo? Lazs2 and the rest of the BK's are the self appointed spokespeople for HTC.

 

[Edbert]

Originally posted by Kev367th

Yes you can a say "swap sides", but think on this -
1) Perk multiplier - To encourage people to swap sides
2) ENY - To encourage people to swap sides
3) Lowered side swap time - To encourage people to swap sides

I find it enlightening that you are right about this, that these techniques invented to encourage fair-play are not always working as we'd hope. The arenas often have a lack of balanced sides (did in the 500-player MA too), which leads directly to a lack of fairness, which when drastic enough leads to a lack of fun for those outnumbered. But don't you see, can't you admit, that this unfairness is the result of the players themselves? The players are using their free choice to create an arena out of balance and thus unfair, DESPITE being offered incentives to play fair. You may call it a symptom of "teh 1337 g4m3rz" from Quake, but I call it simply "greifing".

I think this is a classic example of "slum behavior", a group of folks who want to play a game and then intentionally create a situation that is unfair to their opponents. I am suprised to see so many folks voicing their desires to cheat (playing unfair is tantamount to cheating in my book) in an online game, and now they are literally upset that actions were taken to limit such counterproductive behavior. If you don't like the term cheat then you have to admit it is gaming-the-game at best.

When you see unbalanced sides in any AH arenas please understand this is created by THE PLAYERS using their own freedom of choice.

[scottydawg]

Originally posted by Edbert
I find it enlightening that you are right about this, that these techniques invented to encourage fair-play are not always working as we'd hope. The arenas often have a lack of balanced sides (did in the 500-player MA too), which leads directly to a lack of fairness, which when drastic enough leads to a lack of fun for those outnumbered. But don't you see, can't you admit, that this unfairness is the result of the players themselves? The players are using their free choice to create an arena out of balance and thus unfair, DESPITE being offered incentives to play fair. You may call it a symptom of "teh 1337 g4m3rz" from Quake, but I call it simply "greifing".

I think this is a classic example of "slum behavior", a group of folks who want to play a game and then intentionally create a situation that is unfair to their opponents. I am suprised to see so many folks voicing their desires to cheat (playing unfair is tantamount to cheating in my book) in an online game, and now they are literally upset that actions were taken to limit such counterproductive behavior. If you don't like the term cheat then you have to admit it is gaming-the-game at best.

When you see unbalanced sides in any AH arenas please understand this is created by THE PLAYERS using their own freedom of choice.

I think you've hit the nail right on the head, Edbert.  I believe that the attitude you describe is a DIRECT result of the 'Quake l33ter cheater' mentality, win by any means necessary.  What is missing from these players' understanding it that it is more about PLAYING the game than WINNING the game, as there's really no MA 'winner'.  Map resets, yeah, I suppose that is going to be considered a 'win'.  Since there's really no 'hacking' AH2 (in the sense of code cheats, etc.), they've found the only hack they can work and that's overwhelming numbers.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by lazs2
raider179 or "fatsack"   let's take a look at your stats so that we can put your complaints into perspective...

You fly buffs and use GV's a lot.    You wouldn't want to evern see a early war arena... nothing for you to do there.

But... we are talking about AC here so, let's look at what and how you fly.   You fly F4u and Dora and nik and Ki 84 and the spit 16....  

You get killed twice for every time that you kill someone but....  you play allmost 50 hours a month in fighters and.... you spend most of your time flying around doing nothing... you get 2 kills an hour... that means..

you do nothing most of the time.   I don' t think that you have much of a right to say that the old MA was fine.  I don't think that your style of gameplay is what most want in a combat air sim.

not singling you out but you are one of the few complaining that even gives his real handle.

It seems that the whorde is the safety net that a lot of the guys who spend hours a day flying think they need.

fatsack... get into the early war in a hurri or spit or whatever and I gurantee that you will get into a lot of fights that will improve your abilities to the point that when you meet another plane.... it won't be a two to one chance he will own you even tho you are in a better plane.

lazs
Public Realations Officer for the BK's

It's FatSacks....

Also, I NEVER fly Spits... Not sure where you are looking but you got the wrong data....

I spend a lot of time flying to targets, Because unlike you, I don't up from a capped base. Probably why I don't get vulched 90% of the time as you "CLAIM" you do.

Not sure where you are looking but I went to AH scores at the top there...

I played 73 hours last tour...

46 hours in fighters 27 hours in BUffs and GVs Combined....

Avg 2.8 kills/hr in fighters...That's 1 kill every 20 minutes or so. Sorry but if that is "flying around doing nothing" I bet you never have flown above 5k...

BTW it doesn't matter what you think I have a right to say. But you seem to be one of those "elitist" jerks everyone talks about...

So you saying this change fixed the horde? LMAO LMAO LMAO

I am not a great fighter pilot but I try sorry If I haven't played for 50 years like you have, but that's nice your willing to drag my name through the mud with false stats , and then try to convince me to fly your way.  You want to help people don't be such an elitist jerk...

[wipass]

Well said raider

wipass

[999000]

Raider179......Welcome to the biggest drag of the Game..the BK's.... Blue Knights....go to their home page..It reads something like "we don't fly bombers, we don't do base captures, we don't do Gv's" ...and if you find them rude ....they are proud of it.
999000

[bsdaddict]

Originally posted by scottydawg
... they've found the only hack they can work and that's overwhelming numbers.

dunno about that.  is warping intentional?  seems awfully suspicious when as soon as you get the upper hand on somebody they all of a sudden start warping...  

BAN WARPERS!!!

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Edbert
I find it enlightening that you are right about this, that these techniques invented to encourage fair-play are not always working as we'd hope. The arenas often have a lack of balanced sides (did in the 500-player MA too), which leads directly to a lack of fairness, which when drastic enough leads to a lack of fun for those outnumbered. But don't you see, can't you admit, that this unfairness is the result of the players themselves? The players are using their free choice to create an arena out of balance and thus unfair, DESPITE being offered incentives to play fair. You may call it a symptom of "teh 1337 g4m3rz" from Quake, but I call it simply "greifing".

I think this is a classic example of "slum behavior", a group of folks who want to play a game and then intentionally create a situation that is unfair to their opponents. I am suprised to see so many folks voicing their desires to cheat (playing unfair is tantamount to cheating in my book) in an online game, and now they are literally upset that actions were taken to limit such counterproductive behavior. If you don't like the term cheat then you have to admit it is gaming-the-game at best.

When you see unbalanced sides in any AH arenas please understand this is created by THE PLAYERS using their own freedom of choice.

Totally agree, but can't you see that in the current numbers capped arenas it is making the situation WORSE.

Example from last night -
LW1 - Rooks pretty much well outnumbered, arena full
LW2 - Rooks had the numbers

Combine them you have a more even LW arena.

Never seen ENY's as high in some arenas as I have the last two days I've been back, and the caps are making it worse, NOT better.

For all those who thought it mean't the end of hoard - how wrong can you be lol.
Granted they are not as big, but ratio wise they are still a hoard.

[Simaril]

1) The ENY formula is under HTC's control.

2) HT has said elsewhere that "every game is based on fairness between the sides" or something to that effect.

3) ENY has seemed more restrictive to those who refuse to change sides.



Can you draw any conclusions about what HTC thinks ought to happen? HT doesnt like forcing arbitrarily, but he's willing to put in some pretty stiff incentives to have US balance ourselves. And despite your argument that the arena limits force inequity, the truth is that ANY of the people logged into an arena can cahnge sides of they choose. We CAN even the sides regardless of the total numbers.[edit: total numbers in the arena]

And if you argue "they've never worked before" I have to ask you -- if we as a community refuse to make things roughly fair on our own, do you think he'll give up , or do you think he'll make tougher rules?


You really may want to think about this.

[Edbert]

Agreed again Kev. So since we both agree that blame for the lack of balance lies at the feet of the players and not HTC. What is with all the complaints about ENY? Not just you of course, I don't mean to single you out for being so reasonable here, but the majority of the complaints in this thread about "not being able to fly any plane I want" are pertaining to an ENY situation right? What else can they (HTC) do short of having a randomizer that logs you into whatever chesspeice is currently outnumbered like so many other online games have. At least this way if ENY is kicking you in the shorts it is because of a choice you made. Your thoughts?

...and, 999000 why such a broad brush there? So you have "issues" with some of the folks in the skwad I'm in...fine. But why make such glaringly prejudicial remarks about how the BKs are "the biggest drag on the game" and all just because you and a few individuals can't play nice? Yeah we got some...uhhhh...vociferous members...who doesn't? I for one try always to show respect for other players, I've never had a conflict with you that I can think of and then you go painting me with tar like that...confusing.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by 999000
Raider179......Welcome to the biggest drag of the Game..the BK's.... Blue Knights....go to their home page..It reads something like "we don't fly bombers, we don't do base captures, we don't do Gv's" ...and if you find them rude ....they are proud of it.
999000

You need to remove that hair across your bellybutton ... HT slapped you once ... I wouldn't want to get slapped again.

I have been around here for quite some time (as a MAW, 13th TAS, and now a BK) ... even before you ... and I have never voiced an idea or an opinion that deserves to be called one of the "biggest drags of the Game".

You need to take some deep breaths and repeat over and over ... it's only a game.

[Mustaine]

Originally posted by SlapShot
I'm the biggest drag queen of the Game