F4u

[WTC]

Hey guys its me once more, I just need to know which F4U is better; roll, turn performance, speed, etc.

[Saxman]

Roll in all four models are more or less equal. The F4U-1 is superior in flat turns, but not as good in the vertical. The F4U-4 is far and away the best in acceleration, climb and vertical performance. In fact the F4U-4 is probably the best overall prop fighter in the game PERIOD.

I usually fly the 1D. It's also superior to the -1 in acceleration, climb, and vertical performance, and as good as matches the -1 in level turns. The 1C has some SERIOUS punch with those Hispano cannon, but I really feel like she shows the increased weight and mass with her handling.

[EagleDNY]

I don't fly the F4U-1 or -1D much - I'd rather take up an F6F for those missions where the -1 or -1D would be an alternative.  On the F4U-4, I must concur that that thing is a BEAST - lots of acceleration due to the enormous engine power, plenty maneuverable, and carries a big ordnance load to boot.  

Is it the #1 Prop Ride in the game?  Maybe.  I'd like to see a furball of F4U-4s & Tempests going at it, and maybe a few Spit XIVs to see how that would work.  

I wouldn't want to take bets though...

EagleDNY
$.02

[Patches1]

The key to learning the Corsair is patience. Each of the four varients found in AH has it's strenghths. The weakness of any Corsair is to let it get slow and low in a furball.

I suggest you spend a good amount of time in the Training Arena flying each Corsair. TequilaChaser and Widewing are well known for their Corsair prowess. Set an appointment with them...you'll learn the Corsair best in this fashion.

[SAS_KID]

The F4U4 is a BEAST!!!!! It is my tempest killer:D  only problem is visuals in it you gotta roll it in ways that can make you vulnerable to see where someone is. Its climb acceleration and speed is just outstanding on top of that for the low speed work you got those flaps and engine power to keep ya in the rame. That rudder too is a big plus. But, it also had limited fuel time on internal fuel which with WEP runs it down even more and it has bent wings.

[Saxman]

I've been pretty unimpressed by Spit XIVs. They really lose a lot in the MA environment of the low-alt furball. Tempests really have one clear advantage over the Corsairs, and that's top speed. Get a Tempest in any sort of maneuvering fight and he should be dead.

[Viking]

1-on-1 the La-7 will best both the Tempest and the F4U-4. In a many-vs-many the Tempest should prove the better, with the F4U-4 as a close second due to their superior performance at altitude.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Viking
1-on-1 the La-7 will best both the Tempest and the F4U-4. In a many-vs-many the Tempest should prove the better, with the F4U-4 as a close second due to their superior performance at altitude.

I disagree.

Comparing the F4U-4 to the La-7, the Corsair rolls faster, turns tighter, gives up very little in acceleration and climb (climbs much better than La-7 above 8k). Speed differences are minimal on the deck, and quickly shifts to the -4 as you go up. If the fight gets slow, the la-7 gets dead quickly.

I've fought enough duels between these two to catalog their relative abilities.


My regards,

Widewing

[Saxman]

La-7 is overrated. Her only clear advantages are deck speed and firepower. This is why the majority of La pilots rely on the ludicrous speed HO and dive to the deck dweebery, and run the instant they stumble into a pilot who outmaneuvers them, only to come back the moment their opponent breaks off.

Most of my deaths involving La-7s come from:

Large furballs where it's hard to see them blast through the fight at 500mph

Cherry-pickers zipping down at mach speed after I've gotten slow in what STARTED as a 1vs1

When I'm badly out-numbered and trying to egress, but can't run because the La will catch and pick me, and can't stop and fight because I'll get gang-raped by the Spixteen and HOicane dweebs

I don't lose many 1v1 engagements against Las. Most are from dumb-luck high-deflection shots to the cockpit or engine or getting picked after someone ELSE crippled a wing.

Edit: WW beat me to it.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Widewing
Comparing the F4U-4 to the La-7, the Corsair rolls faster

True, but the difference is small.

Originally posted by Widewing
turns tighter

Arguable. With the -4 the turning circles and rates are very similar.

Originally posted by Widewing
gives up very little in acceleration and climb

About 750 fpm from the deck to 5k. 1-on-1 fights always end up on the deck.

Originally posted by Widewing
(climbs much better than La-7 above 8k)

Make that 12k. between SL and 12k the difference in climb rate is no more than +-750 fpm. If 750 fpm is "very little" at SL then 750 fpm is "very little" at 12k too.

Originally posted by Widewing
Speed differences are minimal on the deck, and quickly shifts to the -4 as you go up.

The La-7 speed advantage actually increases with altitude up to 5k where the -4 starts to close the gap (at about 8k). At 5k the La-7 is doing 400+ mph while the -4 is still only doing 380ish. Above 8k the -4 is superior in speed. Again for 1-on-1 deck speed is more important than speed at altitude.

Originally posted by Widewing
If the fight gets slow, the la-7 gets dead quickly.

I disagree. The planes are sufficiently matched in the slow regime to make it a question of pilot skill. Let's just say that the La-7 is not known to be spoiled with an abundance of good pilots in the MA.

But if you put a good pilot in one …

[WTC]

Thank you all for the advice indeed it will help.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Viking
True, but the difference is small.

Arguable. With the -4 the turning circles and rates are very similar.

About 750 fpm from the deck to 5k. 1-on-1 fights always end up on the deck.

Make that 12k. between SL and 12k the difference in climb rate is no more than +-750 fpm. If 750 fpm is "very little" at SL then 750 fpm is "very little" at 12k too.

The La-7 speed advantage actually increases with altitude up to 5k where the -4 starts to close the gap (at about 8k). At 5k the La-7 is doing 400+ mph while the -4 is still only doing 380ish. Above 8k the -4 is superior in speed. Again for 1-on-1 deck speed is more important than speed at altitude.

I disagree. The planes are sufficiently matched in the slow regime to make it a question of pilot skill. Let's just say that the La-7 is not known to be spoiled with an abundance of good pilots in the MA.

But if you put a good pilot in one …

No question, the F4U-4 has a better roll rate and a more effective rudder. Speed and acceleration differences are close enough to be meaningless, unless you are running from the F4U. Even then, bullets will catch up quick enough if you're in range.

In a dogfight, sustained climb is far less important than people give it credit for. Zoom climb is a much greater factor. For example, take a 109K-4 and an A-20G. Both are doing 300 mph on the deck, with the A-20 600 yards behind the 109. Take the 109 vertical with the A-20 following. What happens? Well, the A-20 closes on the 109 and stays there for far longer than anyone would imagine. Vertical dogfighting is all about E management and E retention/momentum. Steady rate climb is generally a non factor once it becomes a maneuver fight. There is no measurable difference between the La-7 and F4U-4 in a Co-E zoom climb, at any altitude.

A five mph speed differential is as equally unimportant as steady state climb. Not enough difference by itself.

As to turning ability, these fighters are not as similar as you think. Within the plane set, the La-7 ranks 31st among the fighters. The F4U-4 ranks 16th. This difference is equal to that between the Hurricane I and the Spit I... Spitfire Mk.I had better not try to out-turn the Hurricane... It's not huge, but it is significant.

There's no question that a top tier pilot in an La-7 will beat an average pilot in the F4U-4. Heck, you don't need an La-7 to do that, any mid to late war fighter would be adequate. I would guess that 90% of the MA players have never flown a 1v1 duel against anyone. At low speed, the La-7 is far less stable than the F4U (any F4U) and cannot be pushed to the edge of its envelope without far more drama. In a 1v1 scrum, I'd take the 109G-2 over the La-7. Indeed, the G-2 is a close match for the Spit16. However, neither of these fighters can expect to beat the F4U-4, given equal pilots.

I suppose that I've dueled with or fought some of the best La-7 drivers in the game. The best I've seen is airsys (AKA 2Bighorn, Phish, airvent, Baitbug, etc). We have dueled in just about every combination of fighters possible. Several months ago we dueled with the 109G-2 vs the La-7. It was close, but the G-2 was simply better in the vertical and better when the fight became a "stall fight". The difference was very small, but the G-2 held the edge. Last night I dueled with SASKID. He had a Spit16, I had a G-2... This I would classify as dead even. SASKID had been flying Spit16 duels with Sonic23 prior, and Sonic is very, very good. For the record, SASKID needed a few sorties to find the Spit16's limits and after that was very much an even match for Sonic.

I guess what I'm trying to establish here is that I make a point of dueling with as many of the top sticks as will drop by the TA. When you get two guys of equal ability, the better fighter prevails. My experience under those rules is that the F4U-4 will win, regardless of which pilot flies it. We also know that the La-7 will usually beat the Tempest (again, given equal pilots). Within that context, the F4U-4 simply owns the Tempest after a Co-E merge.

I stand by my initial remarks. Of course, I'm always ready to have someone prove me wrong.

My regards,

Widewing

[Viking]

Originally posted by Widewing
Speed and acceleration differences are close enough to be meaningless, unless you are running from the F4U. Even then, bullets will catch up quick enough if you're in range.

I beg to differ …

Originally posted by Widewing
A five mph speed differential is as equally unimportant as steady state climb. Not enough difference by itself.

… And the speed difference is more than 5 mph. It's 8 mph on the deck and +-20 mph at 2k to 6k. I find both the La-7s speed and acceleration advantages to be a lot more than meaningless.

Originally posted by Widewing
In a dogfight, sustained climb is far less important than people give it credit for. Zoom climb is a much greater factor. For example, take a 109K-4 and an A-20G. Both are doing 300 mph on the deck, with the A-20 600 yards behind the 109. Take the 109 vertical with the A-20 following. What happens? Well, the A-20 closes on the 109 and stays there for far longer than anyone would imagine

This is because the A-20 is cutting the corner on the 109, pulling less G (bleeding less E) and closing in the horizontal as well. Fly a 109K and an A-20 in a line abreast formation and then test their zoom-climbs. Both pulling the same G into the vertical. The 109 will handily out-climb the A-20.

Originally posted by Widewing
Steady rate climb is generally a non factor once it becomes a maneuver fight

I have seen enough spiral-climbing 109s to know that is not the case.

Originally posted by Widewing
As to turning ability, these fighters are not as similar as you think. Within the plane set, the La-7 ranks 31st among the fighters. The F4U-4 ranks 16th. This difference is equal to that between the Hurricane I and the Spit I... Spitfire Mk.I had better not try to out-turn the Hurricane... It's not huge, but it is significant.

You will notice that a mere 25 feet separates the turn radiuses of the La-7 and F4U-4 using flaps. Without flaps the La-7 surprisingly out-turns the F4U-4 by a significant margin.

The difference in turn radius between the Spit I and Hurri I is indeed very similar to the La-7 and F4U-4, but only in feet. You'll notice that a difference of 23-25 feet is much more significant for the Spit and Hurri comparison since they have much smaller turning-circles in general.

Originally posted by Widewing
At low speed, the La-7 is far less stable than the F4U (any F4U) and cannot be pushed to the edge of its envelope without far more drama. In a 1v1 scrum, I'd take the 109G-2 over the La-7.

I find that the La-7 is extremely stable at low speeds with flaps. Very similar to the 109 in that regard.

Originally posted by Widewing
I suppose that I've dueled with or fought some of the best La-7 drivers in the game. The best I've seen is airsys (AKA 2Bighorn, Phish, airvent, Baitbug, etc). We have dueled in just about every combination of fighters possible. Several months ago we dueled with the 109G-2 vs the La-7. It was close, but the G-2 was simply better in the vertical and better when the fight became a "stall fight". The difference was very small, but the G-2 held the edge. Last night I dueled with SASKID. He had a Spit16, I had a G-2... This I would classify as dead even. SASKID had been flying Spit16 duels with Sonic23 prior, and Sonic is very, very good. For the record, SASKID needed a few sorties to find the Spit16's limits and after that was very much an even match for Sonic.

I guess what I'm trying to establish here is that I make a point of dueling with as many of the top sticks as will drop by the TA. When you get two guys of equal ability, the better fighter prevails. My experience under those rules is that the F4U-4 will win, regardless of which pilot flies it. We also know that the La-7 will usually beat the Tempest (again, given equal pilots). Within that context, the F4U-4 simply owns the Tempest after a Co-E merge.

I stand by my initial remarks. Of course, I'm always ready to have someone prove me wrong.

My regards,

Widewing

Again, I beg to differ, your dueling experience notwithstanding. I find the La-7 and F4U-4 sufficiently matched to make pilot-skill and luck the deciding factor. I do however agree that overall the F4U-4 is a much better plane than the La-7 due to its performance at altitude, range and armament options. Little of that matters in the game-world of the MA though.





My humble regards

Viking

[ded]

Originally posted by SAS_KID
But, it also had limited fuel time on internal fuel which with WEP runs it down even more and it has bent wings.

WEP makes the fuel last LONGER.  The F4U-4 uses water injection which increases gas mileage, same as the P47N

[Rocket]

I am rusty as hell in the hog right now but I will agree more with WW here.

The thing that will save your life in the hog is its ability to roll quickly, quicker than alot of ppl give credit for most the time.  It also will turn better than a spitty thinks on the first couple of turns.  Best hope there is if he finds you slow drop 2 notches of flaps and use your roll rate to gain some distance on him.  If you are good with E you can hang her on the prop with about any plane depending of course on E states.  

If I am going out to fight and think it is a low/slow furball I take the -1.  Feels better in the turn and accels pretty good.  Anything at alt or if I just feel like a BnZ fight I take the -1D.  Roll is still great and it turns just abit worse than the -1.   C-hog IMO is for bustin ack.  It ranks up there as one of my fav ground and pound attackers.  I don't like the RoF of the hispano for dogfighting but for busting things on the ground it rocks.   -4   is just a dream ride.  She flies nice, great roll rate and the accel rocks.  All the planes make use of "combat flaps" by dropping 2 notches of flap when slower, and the gear are re-enforced for use as dive brakes which can save your life when 1v1 and slow on the deck.  

You put a hog in the hands of a good pilot and anything in front of him/her dies.

I do get nervous against La-7, spit XIV, p51(usually scares me the most), newer 109s, some 190 pilots.  (right now nervous every flight tho.. still too damn rusty).  

S!
Rocket