Author Topic: Someone help me understand.....  (Read 5775 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2006, 01:48:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
this is the problem.

you blame the problem on THEM, doing exactly what any one "at war" would do, yet you wont move around and defend?



Are you naturally this dense or you do actually have to work at it?  Maybe if I type a little slower you might be able to comprehend a little better.

If...I...up...to...defend...t hey...move...to...the...next. ..undefended...base.


ack-ack
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Offline Donzo

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« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2006, 02:23:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Are you naturally this dense or you do actually have to work at it?  Maybe if I type a little slower you might be able to comprehend a little better.

If...I...up...to...defend...t hey...move...to...the...next. ..undefended...base.


ack-ack


Picking the path of least resistance....solid win the war tactic. :aok

Offline BugsBunny

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« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2006, 02:31:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by smash
So the complaint is you can't intercept co-alt because you don't have enough time to climb? And if they only survive a short time its all over anyway, no 'freebie' base capture.

I'm just trying to get a grip on why there seems to be such a dislike of missions and group action.  In the ye olde days squads were saluted... and they were saluted for base capture.  You joined a squad whose members had great scores and ranks -- if you were good enough.

Looks to me like the crux of a lot of it is just crap flying.  I've been around long enough to have seen a few of those trends.  There was the HO/Collision phase... the CV suicide bomber phase.... maybe now its the lawn dart jabo phase....  I've always said that planes were too cheap.


Not a complain.  I was answering your question.  There is no intercept unless you mean HO them.  Once the nose points down, there is no catching them

Offline Overlag

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« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2006, 02:36:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Are you naturally this dense or you do actually have to work at it?  Maybe if I type a little slower you might be able to comprehend a little better.

If...I...up...to...defend...t hey...move...to...the...next. ..undefended...base.


ack-ack


you musta miss read my post..... i said "yet you wont move around and defend?"

1: they try to milkrun base###
2: you  up and defend
3: the attack dies out, so defenders can land
4: return to 1.

it goes on. tbh this is where the fun is, defending or attacking bases. When attacking (often with grillparty) we will attack constantly untill we have the base, or its impossible. Some will move on at the instance of any defence showing up....but theres nothing wrong with that, its a valid tactic.

Its LETTING them do it thats what is wrong. If they can move to attack other bases fast, then you can move around and defend just as fast.



the only real problem now which is making  you notice milk runners more, is these new small MA's with no numbers.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2006, 02:39:24 PM by Overlag »
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Offline Solar10

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« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2006, 02:38:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by smash
Not trying to be a jerk.... just some questions and comments.....

If numbers are equal, how do the A>G group avoid the A>A group?  Loaded with ordinance performance is inferior, so you can't outrun them.  It would have to be surprise.  Unless the A>A guys just don't want the fight.

Numbers imbalance is self-explanatory.  But an arena with a hypothetical 30-20-10 split is a lot worse then a 160-150-140 split in a larger population (single world/arena).

It just seems to me that multiple arenas aggravates the imbalance problem which seems to be the root cause.

I've logged on maybe 6 different days since the change - just guessing.  Here's what I do generally.   I go to either the MW or EW arena first, whichever has the largest number.  When I get in the first thing I do is check the roster.  If the numbers are out of wack I leave for the other arena.  So far one of those two arenas has worked for me -- which is good because in the time period when I ususally fly the LW is packed and you get tossed to the little arena with 40 players, something I'm not interested in.

Once in I look to the map and see where the bars are.  Start flying there and wait for a mission to come up.  If something comes up good where I know the guys planning/flying I'll join.  If during that mission we take a base with no resistance my patience will be about shot.  But sometimes if I've got nothing else going on I'll stick around for a second mission.  No resistance on that one and I'll probably log.  These last few months I'm not able to play for long hours on end.

From my perspective when that occurs (lack of resistance) its boring, but there's not much you can do.  If a country's players are not interested in defending their fields, and they're scared of taking on a group larger then 10 -- what can you do?

The new setup does not seem horribly bad or anything, there are a few annoying things that happen once in a while, but I had that in the old MA too.  I just don't see how anything is going to solve the issues some guys have of only wanting to fight in small numbers.

I just wanted to edit this with a quick comment.  I like the EW arena.  Don't get me wrong.  Its far more fun then I had with the AvA.


Hmmmm... Interesting.

When I read this I heard...  I will wait for an organized Horde so I can attach a base.  No one ups to defend against my horde so it is boring.  Boo to all those who do not up to defend against the horde.

In the mean time I will not consider defending any of my bases.  So aren't you one of them that you boo?
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Offline smash

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« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2006, 02:51:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Either of the scenarios you mention is pretty much a polar opposite of both the discussion, and the type of thing I was referring too.


All right, but what I read through with some of these threads is a general painting with the proverbial broad brush.  For example, I like flying with a squad or in a group but

Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire

Only taking undefended fields with a mob, fleeing at the very threat of having to interact with your opponents, flying only for the side with the most numbers, etc


That would not be me.  And I'm betting that what you are describing is the minority, but I'll be honest and say I'm really not sure.  I only came back to flying here a few months ago.  Whats rather funny in a painful way is that I dropped $1k just on flight controllers to play this and then within a few months it heads off in a weird direction.  Ouch.

And in reading Hitechs posting on what to expect in the future its pretty obvious he ain't looking at things the way I do :)   So guess what... it is the way it is and it ain't changin'.

A couple of things.  I  assume that HTC's crew flys frequently under shade accounts of some kind and they were unhappy with gameplay.  Plus I figure they hit some kind of revenue plateau and are trying to figure out how to break through/past that.  You can't blame them for trying to improve their situation.

I'm only posting (and it just happened to be in response to some of your comments) because interacting on the forum was a way to get my view on the gameplay out there.  It seems there are a lot  of really vocal people who really only want to see this thing as an air to air combat sim.  A little back and forth is good, if nothing else to understand better what you are thinking.
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Offline thndregg

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« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2006, 03:01:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
We're not at 'war', we're at game.



Then HT should design the game so that "The war has been won by the --" should not exsist, the dar should be all the way down to ground level, every building should be indestructible, and anyone's interest in causing damage covertly is considered subverse and unacceptable. So WW2-like aerial combat is fine, and everything else HT incorporated into the full scope of the game is frowned upon?

People will do (and have done) the covert-ops regardless of the years of whines. The fact remains that HT has not yet changed the game to make that kind of play impossible, therefore it will continue by anyone, anywhere, anytime until he actually changes the game.
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Offline EagleDNY

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« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2006, 03:12:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It doesn't matter if you up to defend your base because the milkrunners will stop their attack and move off to find another undefended base.


ack-ack


Thats why its called DEFENSE - you up and defend, and the stop the attack.  They go someplace else to attack, you up and defend there.  If you have stopped the attack, your defense was successful - congratulate yourself because the attackers are hating the fact that they were unsuccessful.

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Offline thndregg

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« Reply #83 on: September 29, 2006, 03:23:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
this is the problem.

you blame the problem on THEM, doing exactly what any one "at war" would do, yet you wont move around and defend?


I've been on the recieving end of NOE missions, either within the dar circle of the intended base to be taken, or between bases (thier's and ours), and for me it's fun to get them all riled up when they see me, the enemy. I alert the rest of the country/squad, and that is where the furball begins- the base defense against the mission offense. Great chance for either side to rack up some kills.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #84 on: September 29, 2006, 03:37:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
Picking the path of least resistance....solid win the war tactic. :aok



considering the source of that statement, I can understand why you like to milkrun.


ack-ack
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Offline Donzo

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« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2006, 03:44:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
considering the source of that statement, I can understand why you like to milkrun.


ack-ack


The source of "that" statement was me.  So what's your point?

Offline EagleDNY

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« Reply #86 on: September 29, 2006, 03:49:21 PM »
OK - I'm a landgrabber, and for the record, yes, I'd like for my country to win the war every single time.  Why you may ask?  Is it the amazing 20 whole perk points, or the new map we get to see?  No - it is just more interesting to me to get a coordinated attack going and fly with my buds than it is to up an uber plane, fight 1 vs 1, rinse, and repeat ad nauseam.

By my take on this thread, one question seems to be: why do you bother taking undefended land?  To which I respond, well why the hell don't you up and defend your land?  Having been on the defense myself quite a bit, I know that there are a variety of ways for a smaller force to frustrate the attackers and ruin their day - goon hunting, troop porking, etc.  In the midst of that you might even get some good A to A battles.

Another complaint is that it is too difficult to stop the 15K jabos diving through the defenders and getting to target.  OK - having been a jabo whose job it is to get through the defense and get my bombs on target, I shouldn't be expected to sit there like a pidgeon so you can have fun.  Get up to 20K and dive down on me and maybe you'll stop me.  I will grant you this - the radar ranges are too short to make an effective intercept by the time you see the attackers on radar.  I have made postings to this effect and have suggested HT increase the base and CV radar ranges so that it would be easier for the defense to get up and intercept, and I have also suggested large strat radars covering a large area.

Another complaint seems to be about "hordes" attacking.  Lets face it - squaddies usually like to fly together, so if they all are attacking a single target you are going to have a horde.  The best battles I've seen on this game are the horde of attackers vs the horde of defenders, so if you like A to A, then join in the horde and have at it.  If you don't have a horde, then most likely the perk point cost of a Tempest/262/Spit XIV/F4U4 (insert arena uber ride here) is going to be real low for you, so up one of those and have fun that way.

I would submit for the good of the game as a whole, the game should be oriented more towards hordes and landgrabbing / base capture / strat destruction.  Why you may ask?  Put yourself in the role of a complete newbie coming into the game - you can get up OK, but then what?  Are you more likely to have fun, be successful and want to come back and play more when you are part of an organized force trying to accomplish a specific objective? Are you more likely to meet folks you want to fly with that way?  

Do you think a newbie has more fun upping on his own, flying off, and getting shot down alone again and again by pilots that have hundreds and thousands of kills under their belts? (and then getting taunted by some prepubescent egomaniac on channel 200 afterwards?)  I don't think so.  

Thats my $.02 worth.

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Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #87 on: September 29, 2006, 03:52:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
The source of "that" statement was me.  So what's your point?



That I understand why you like to milkrun.  I thought my previous post made that quite clear or do I have to type slower for you too?


ack-ack
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Offline Donzo

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« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2006, 04:11:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
That I understand why you like to milkrun.  I thought my previous post made that quite clear or do I have to type slower for you too?


ack-ack



I said:
Quote
Picking the path of least resistance....solid win the war tactic.


You replied:
Quote
considering the source of that statement, I can understand why you like to milkrun.


First of all your reply makes no sense:
"Considering the source of that statement" source=me, statement=mine

"I can understand why you like to milkrun"
You understand this how?
My statement indicates that I like to milkrun?  How so?

It was a statement that pointed out a fact.  
I don't see how it reflects what I do or don't like.

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #89 on: September 29, 2006, 04:16:27 PM »
By my take on this thread, one question seems to be: why do you bother taking undefended land? To which I respond, well why the hell don't you up and defend your land? Having been on the defense myself quite a bit, I know that there are a variety of ways for a smaller force to frustrate the attackers and ruin their day - goon hunting, troop porking, etc. In the midst of that you might even get some good A to A battles.

"... why the hell don't you up and defend your land?"

It's not always a question as to "why don't" you ... it has a lot to do with one side vastly outnumbers the other side and no matter how you try to defend, you just don't have the numbers to thwart the attack ... along with not having the "total" numbers, country-wide, to thwart all attacks.

Don't always assume that fields go un-defended because no one wants to ... they just physically can't.

"... smaller force to frustrate the attackers and ruin their day - goon hunting, troop porking, etc."

Yeah sounds like a load of fun ... I'd rather stick sharp pencils in my eye. Why is it ok for the horde to go around flying, bombing, etc ... enjoying their night, while those who are vastly outnumbered should find fun in running around try to find ALL the goons and pork ALL the troops.

There is an old story ....

Tom lives between Bill (on the right of him ) and Harry (on the left of him).

Bill's yard is a mess ... garbage all over the place ... it smells ... disgusting to look at. Tom can't even sit on his porch and enjoy it.

Tom visits Harry and tells Harry all his woes about Bill's yard.

Harry says to Bill ... "Looks OK from my porch".

Your post sounds like it came from Harry's mouth.
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