Author Topic: 89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter  (Read 719 times)

Offline Neubob

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« on: October 20, 2006, 02:43:33 PM »
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I remember this story well. 89 year old driver mistakes gas for brake and plows into a crowd of people at something like 70 mph. No intent, no culpability, just a horrendous driving error. To die, including a baby and its mother. Tragic event.

Just curious, how many here think he deserves to do time. How many here think that we need more stringent regulations in licensing senior citizens?

Offline Iceman24

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2006, 02:45:47 PM »
if he killed/injured people then yes, I don't think your age or mental stability should have anything to do with it

Offline Chairboy

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2006, 02:51:03 PM »
No culpability?  Culpability is the measure of moral or legal responsibility for an action.  A driver who kills because his reduced capability from drinking is held culpable, why not an old person who continues to drive past the point where they can safely control the car?

At what point do we as a society begin to hold people personally responsible for their actions?  Where is accountability?

It's ridiculous that someone flying something that weighs less than a Honda civic must jump through hoops to qualify for a 3rd class medical while Joe Senior can drift along the highway in a multi-ton Cadillac Car, barely seeing over the dashboard in some cases.

I'm loathe to add government controls to anything, so I'd like to see business coming to bat.  Are there non-governmental solutions to this problem?
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Offline Mickey1992

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2006, 02:59:34 PM »
He mistook the brake for the gas for 300 yards.  It's not an accident, it's negligence.  He should not have been driving.

My Grandpa sold his car in his late 80's and traded it in for a golf cart.  He knew he did not have the mental capacity or reflexes to operate a car.

As sad as it is, jail seems appropriate.  If he were 18 or drunk we would not be having this conversation.

Offline sluggish

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2006, 03:04:12 PM »
It's funny that in the other thread about the cop who ran a stop sign and killed two people the consensus was on the fence as to whether he should do time or not.  Doesn't anyone think these two incidents are related in any way?

Offline Neubob

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2006, 03:10:30 PM »
First of all, let it be known that I don't think that this guy is free and clear just because he was old. I remember when this happened, I wished that the mob that pulled him out of the car had killed him there and then.

That being said, I'm going to play devil's advocate...
 
I think that he should have never been granted a driver's license, or insured, for that matter. That, however, should have been the decision of the DMV, the insurance company or both. I think that the last person who will know of his incapability to drive safely was, in fact, the 89 year old driver himself. He had no perspective on the matter, and in spite of his clear lack of fitness as a driver, the authorities, who should be experts in the matter of evaluating drivers, failed to do their job. He had every right to apply for a license. They had every responsibility to reject him.

Quote
Originally posted by Mickey1992
If he were 18 or drunk we would not be having this conversation.


A drunk is not only aware of his impairment, is not only aware of his responsibility for the impairment, but he should be aware of the illegality of what he is doing. The old man may not have known that he was impaired, was not responsible for it, and most likely had no idea of the illegality of his physical state. Not everyone is lucky enough to learn of his/her age-related problems in largely benign household accidents.

As for an 18 year-old... That's an odd one, but, most likely, this would involve some sort of very evident physical condition that would not have been overlooked by the DMV.

Again, I am not standing up for this guy. I'm only pointing out how un-straightforward this situation is.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2006, 03:18:28 PM by Neubob »

Offline john9001

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2006, 03:23:26 PM »
driving tip of the day, when your car sounds like a vacuum sweeper and does not stop when you step on a pedal, that's not the brake, it's the gas pedal.

Offline Gh0stFT

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Re: 89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2006, 03:46:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
we need more stringent regulations in licensing senior citizens


seniors at what age?
and who will decide it? the gouverment? ;)
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Offline Neubob

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Re: Re: 89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2006, 04:28:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
seniors at what age?
and who will decide it? the gouverment? ;)


I don't know.

65 seems too young for this, while 89 sounds too old to have gone without some sort of additional testing.

They test hearing, they test eyesight and they generally do a half-assed job of both. I think they should also test reaction time, among a host of other things. The DMV should not have given this man a license. Plain and simple. In fact, I'd be willing to say that having a cut off at some point, where getting a license is impossible or next to impossible, may be the way to go. It's a matter of balancing public interest against personal privilage. As Chairboy said, 'those who can't see over their dashboards', might be better off taking the bus.

Offline sluggish

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2006, 06:23:22 PM »
In Michigan you have to renew every 5 years.  Every other time you can renew by mail.  A lot of stuff can happen to an elderly person in 10 years.  Above a certain age (say 65) you should have to renew in person every year.  Over 70 you should have to have an annual physical.

Offline J_A_B

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2006, 06:27:34 PM »
The driver in question is pretty obviously guilty of a severe crime.  There's no need to punish many for the mistake of one.  If we were into that, teenagers should all have their licenses revoked as well, as they're notoriously crash-prone.

Some of you apparently don't realize that, for many seniors, taking away their driver's license amounts to little better than a death sentence.  Getting old really, really sucks, and it sucks a whole lot worse once you become confined and unable to care for yourself.

Furthermore, why should only the aged be forced to undergo additional testing?  That's nothing more than age-based discrimination.  I'm not opposed to making standards more stringent, but make them more stringent for everybody.  I've seen a heck of a lot more traffic crashes involving young and middle age drivers than old ones.

Age-based discrimination = bad
Tougher standards for everyone = not so bad

J_A_B
« Last Edit: October 20, 2006, 06:33:17 PM by J_A_B »

Offline john9001

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2006, 06:32:50 PM »
they should raise the driving age to 30 and above

Offline Neubob

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2006, 06:45:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B

Age-based discrimination = bad
Tougher standards for everyone = not so bad

J_A_B


I would agree. But, remember, this isn't so much aged-based discrimination as it is competance-based discrimination. Personally, I would raise the standards for teenagers as well, because I'm pretty sure that they cause more accidents annually than any other segment of the population.

As for him committing a serious crime, I do not know about the wording. He screwed up bigtime, but, in this country, intent accounts for a lot. I would feel very odd sending a man this age, in his health, to jail for an act that he clearly did not will. On the other hand, it would be very difficult to let a man who deprived 10 others of life, and 70 others of health, to enjoy freedom.

I do believe that he is suffering greatly on the inside, and just like that cop who ran the stop sign, will never sleep peacefully again. Punishing this old man will serve no point as far as deterence, only retribution. We have to consider that before we light the torches.

I believe that the biggest act of negligence here was perpetrated by the DMV, and it should be their policies that come under question.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: 89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2006, 06:56:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Neubob
Article


Just curious, how many here think he deserves to do time. How many here think that we need more stringent regulations in licensing senior citizens?


I say, String him up!






But seriously. I think the elderly should have to pass drinving tests annually.
and the older you get. the mor frequesnt you should have to take em
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Offline DREDIOCK

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89 year old, guilty on 10 counts of vehiclular manslaughter
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2006, 06:59:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
At what point do we as a society begin to hold people personally responsible for their actions?  Where is accountability?
 


What?? That would be untinkable!

We used to do that. Not anymore since PC and the shift the blame mentality arrived. But we used to
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty