What has changed?

[Toad]

[FALCONWING]

Originally posted by Nomak
Actually bro I was part of the movement long before it was cool.  And long before you or your mega skwad were even in this game.

Dave

unless you can beat 9 years flying...my squad is a little older...then i doubt your claim.

and as for "the l33test furballer"..i did that for the first two years i flew...won the 1v1 contests...2v2 contests and didnt even bother to land ever...definitely didnt ever quit flying til all ammo was gone...

for me personally that got old...im sorry you dont expect more from a game if you have played as long as you claim.

what Hitech et al brought to the game was a dimension of drama that always changed.   he took the AW format of mini-arenas where you never knew 4/5 of the community and allowed larger more dynamic interaction...also larger numbers in one arena allowed larger (ww2-like) missions...and i loved it:aok

imho a "furball" is the most static thing in the game...unless you are a "picker" then it is  a race to kill as many as you can before the next guy in nails you.  in order to stay alive you have to be willing to "sacrifice" country mates by eggressing when the tide is turning.  the base capture is the most dynamic and has a goal associated with it.

my squad exists to fight the fights you find offensive..we love upping 8-10 of us and rolling into the melee you posted a snapshot of...i still cant figure out why a "furballer" would hate to see a lot of enemy fiters?  the best i can come up with is what i posted earlier...it requires teamwork and respect to convince guys to fight with you in such a situation...that takes consistent leadership and presence.

also it requires a modicum of skill...in a fight like that i can get 3-4 kills b4 i die...using alt adv...i can also usually pick off a goon or two!! wtgs all around..tyvm!  akak/chaingun/lynx and few other good alt fighters know exactly what i mean!!! but alas the skills learnd from low alt turnfiting (ie. furballing) dont allow one to survive long do they?  this is why many of these posters cant da well...once the fight becomes multidimensional (ie. not on the deck flaps down) it gets too confusing and they die quickly.

what is most amusing is that b4 all these silly fights on the bbs...if i had been asked..i would have called myself a furballer first and a toolshedder second...now i gladly call myself a "toolshedder" because the guys i find myself standing alongside are more "my type of guys"!  by this i mean friendly, non-offensive peeps who would rather get vulched holding a field, then posting a whiny pic on the bbs.  as if that would somehow change behavior.  rather they would organize resistance..do a little porking and have fun:aok

[FALCONWING]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
I humbly suggest that those who defended have either quit playing, or now face even larger numbers of attackers making for even worse odds. Some still up, but it seems that a good many no longer bother. 4 to 1 odds was tough. 10 to 1 is almost impossible to defend against effectively. And that's why we now see 10 to 1 odds instead of "just" 4 to 1 odds; not superior leadership.

hubs i understand what you are saying and i dont necessarily disagree...all i can say is that not how BoPs fly..and we die all the time stopping such attacks.

that being said..i hope we can adapt to the new changes...while i dont want to quit..i find myself wandering aimlessly thru the arenas without much purpose...yes some of the furball situations are alot of fun...but they are not consisitent and the off-hours are downright boring...in short i am flying alot less.

i guess i want a purpose to a game...i hope i will rediscover one because i do love it! but for now "the drama" is missing....when everquest became a slogfest of "leveling", i got bored with it...maybe its world of warcraft time =)

i wish the game had new features (squad skins...individual skins you could personalize etc....new terrain and better maps).  that would have been a cooler change for me..but i understand and respect that it is hitech et al's game and they are doing what they think is right for it.

for now the BoPs and I will try to adapt..but since we are mainly about friendship and teamwork...the newest change is not friendly towards it. i have not posted since the newest change til tonight because honestly "I  GET THE MESSAGE" and now i have to decide what to do with it

[Tumor]

Nomak... This situation is why I keep a working copy of IL2-FB and LOMAC up to date and running.

[Mr No Name]

Originally posted by Nomak
These were taken in LW2 fairly late tonight (well past prime Time).  At the time of these shots 130 players were in this arena.......

This is why all of us furballers have absolutely zero respect for the tool-shed heros.

The truth is....... the players who play in this manner are a cancer within the game and need to be weeded out of the game. I hope all of them do quit because they lost thier precious 750 player arena.





The worst part is that even after the arena split.  These players still are infecting the smallers arena's.

What has changed?

Edit.....  Why is it so important to play against other players  (i.e. large numbers of players)  when u are just killing cartoon sheds?  Or is this what your "Skwad" night that the new arena's have "ruined" is all about???

Dave

Upset over what??? cooperation?  you furballers could have it too... if you werent such self-centered dolts.  It looks to me like someone put together a mission and carried it out well... that's the name of the game

[Tumor]

Originally posted by FALCONWING


here is the secret...that attack had leadership...someone obviously took the time to coordinate an attack.

I think that leadership would get some respect if it were to grow a pair and point the "attack" somewhere that might be a challenge.  Gangbangin undefended fields in the name of the land grab just aint ever gonna get any.   By the same token, if the furby leader (?) were to grow some and gather all the furbies to meet the challenge head on, we might have something.  I dunno how you can't have a furball by meeting a bunch of landgrabbers head on (no wait... pork'n auger dweebs, but not always).   Anyway, zipping around killing each other in a static knife fite for whatever reason isn't gonna get much respect either.  It all depends on perspective.

Point I'm trying to make is, seem's ya got 2 ideologies here... if either side were to think a minute we wouldn't have a problem.  HOWEVER, as long as there is a path of least resistance... certain gamer types will always take it, and that is unfortunate.  IMHO, the grabber's carry the heavier end of the blame, they "could" change it up just a little and see the greater benefit overall.

Now, there is the 3rd point of view... it involves being flexible.  Not many folks in AH seem to want to try and be flexible and change thier "game" a bit for the sake of better game play, sad really... but it does make for some seriously entertaining threads here.

[FrodeMk3]

I'm thinkin' that Nomak should have dove in and tried to pick off vulchers and save his field, instead of sitting high and tryin' to be a cherry-pickin' dweeb!!!

     Srry, Nomak, I could'nt resist. Odds were in the attackers' favor. But, what about people upping from that nearby 4.2k base to come save the day? Should have been more than 1.

     I guess my point being, who's more at fault? The guy staging the NOE field take, or the guy who doesn't lift a finger to defend it?

[Waffle]

Originally posted by Max
You folks can argue FB vs TS until the cows come home. The only way toolshedding's gonna end is by eliminating the "war win" and making all hangars
indestructable. Call me when Hitech implements those changes cuz hell's likely to be frozen over.

harrumph harraumph - I didnt get a harrupmh outta that guy!

As far as my 2 cents can be thrown....

If there is purpose for the "leet mad furball skilz" shouldn't that make it more engaging than just chasing your tails all day and flying around like moths around  a light?

If folks are so concerned about finding a fair fight and making sure it's a 1v1...the DA is down the hall...

Those "leet mad furballing skillz", should suffice in a 3 v1 , 4v1 or more in the MA....if you can't handle a 2v1 or 3v1 in the MA...well I guess you need to brush up some.

Originally posted by Mr No Name
Upset over what??? cooperation?  you furballers could have it too... if you werent such self-centered dolts.  It looks to me like someone put together a mission and carried it out well... that's the name of the game

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Tumor
I think that leadership would get some respect if it were to grow a pair and point the "attack" somewhere that might be a challenge.  Gangbangin undefended fields in the name of the land grab just aint ever gonna get any.   By the same token, if the furby leader (?) were to grow some and gather all the furbies to meet the challenge head on, we might have something.  I dunno how you can't have a furball by meeting a bunch of landgrabbers head on (no wait... pork'n auger dweebs, but not always).   Anyway, zipping around killing each other in a static knife fite for whatever reason isn't gonna get much respect either.  It all depends on perspective.

Point I'm trying to make is, seem's ya got 2 ideologies here... if either side were to think a minute we wouldn't have a problem.  HOWEVER, as long as there is a path of least resistance... certain gamer types will always take it, and that is unfortunate.  IMHO, the grabber's carry the heavier end of the blame, they "could" change it up just a little and see the greater benefit overall.

Now, there is the 3rd point of view... it involves being flexible.  Not many folks in AH seem to want to try and be flexible and change thier "game" a bit for the sake of better game play, sad really... but it does make for some seriously entertaining threads here.

Amen to that Tumor.  The key to me is somehow designing maps that will funnel the furballers and land grabbers towards the same spots.  In the end you want to give the furballers a decent reason to cover the land grabbers (fighting other furballers doing the same while helping the strategic side of things) and you want the land grabbers to have to fight their way in and out so they get a taste of the air combat part of the game that isn't overwhelming odds.

Right now the maps aren't built to do that consistantly.  On occasion such things will break out but they don't last as the hangers get dropped, or the attackers move because they don't want to fight.

There has to be a way to force the two 'ideologies' together.

[sgt203]

What I see is a base that is across the water from a friendly base and a means to access 2 airfields and a vehicle base and a radar factory.....As for the amount and types of planes used to capture this base, who cares.

Im sure that after this base was attacked and taken there were people upping from nearby airfields and the vehicle base to defend the area....

I have read numerous postings on this site about "furballers" and "Landgrabbers" or "Toolshedders"....

I see points in both arguments for and against the above....

There have been alot of valid points made by both sides, some intelligent arguments for both styles of play....

Myself I will do either, and not very well mind you, but why do I do it...

To have fun.... its a game..... yes a game...

Each persons way of having fun differs, while you may not see the fun in landgrabbing or in furballing others may....

No one person here is able to say what may be fun for others... and in the long run each person is here to have fun in their own way.....

The fact of the matter is there is no way to "FIX" the game because its not broken.... Im sure there are probably things that can be done to make the game more enjoyable for all... Making changes to suit one particular persons style of play is not going to happen nor should it

I guess I dont understand the point of posting to complain about the way someone is playing the game that YOU dont agree with.

You see the same thing in the arenas in the messages "if the furballers at --- base would help we could take this base" etc etc etc...

As I stated I will play either way I like to both furball at times and landgrab at times each has its purpose and is fun in its own way....

Because you cant understand why it is fun for anyone is simply because it is no fun for you.....

as the old sayings go "to each their own" and "live and let live"...

You play the way you like and let others play their way....

ITS A GAME TREAT IT AS SUCH... RELAX AND HAVE YOUR OWN FUN!!!!!

[bozon]

Originally posted by Mr No Name
Upset over what??? cooperation?  you furballers could have it too... if you werent such self-centered dolts.  It looks to me like someone put together a mission and carried it out well... that's the name of the game

I'll tell you what I see. According to dar and picture, there are over 20 planes attacking or close to the base.

Now, I like defending fields. I'm not sitting in a tower in 20 sec readiness to scramble at the next base attacked, but probably flying somewhere. This is what happens:
1 - I open the clipboard and see this red cloud ib a base.
2 - It's going to take me a couple of min. to land, by which time they will be very near or over the base.
3 - So I scrable my P47 from a nearby base.
4 - It's going to take another ~5 min to reach 10k at a fast shallow climb and cover the distance. By this time the base will be wiped out or even capured.
5 - ok, I'm there and they didn't capture it yet. How fun do you think a P47 vs. 20 N1K is going to be? I'll happily take 1vs.1 from disadvantage, 1vs.2 on even terms or 1vs.3-4 with advantage, but this is rediculous.

Orgenized defense? good idea.
Back to step #3 and now I'm sitting in the tower and spamming country channel about defense mission. BEHOLD! my country men are responding and landing in droves to join (as if). So now to the previous 7-8 minutes defensive response time add another 2-3 minute (VERY optimistic) to get a 10 people scramble mission going. Now we get there after well over 10 minutes to save a flattened or already captured base, outnumbered 2 to 1.

Bottom line - when I see such a picture on the clipboard, I don't even bother. They can have the base with my blessing.

[gatt]

Originally posted by Nomak
What has changed?

Nothing, as usual furballers are not able to defend their country

[lazs2]

well... people are learning that the borg and the furballers are incompatible... but then we all knew this.

The difference it that the borg want everyone to be forced into one arena.   they want that arena to be one where early war planes are easy meat and lack of skill can be masked by plane choice and the willingness and patience to game the extremely simplistic "strat" in the game...

As hub pointed out... the borg have figured out the tilting point.. the point where sheer numbers will game the strat and overcome the most skilled..  it is probly past 4 to 1.

They also need the best equipment and at least a small,eccentric...10-20%, of the population flying planes of lesser ability that are no threat to them... that is why they want LW to allow early war planes...  

LW is still a slum as indy so aptly put it but...

Now the guys who enjoy using the entire planeset and enjoy air combat, have places to go.  

An arena with 60 individuals is a fun arena...  the lw with its 2 or three hundred insect borgs is just griefers and gamers slum.  

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by FALCONWING
hubs i understand what you are saying and i dont necessarily disagree...all i can say is that not how BoPs fly..and we die all the time stopping such attacks.

that being said..i hope we can adapt to the new changes...while i dont want to quit..i find myself wandering aimlessly thru the arenas without much purpose...yes some of the furball situations are alot of fun...but they are not consisitent and the off-hours are downright boring...in short i am flying alot less.

i guess i want a purpose to a game...i hope i will rediscover one because i do love it! but for now "the drama" is missing....when everquest became a slogfest of "leveling", i got bored with it...maybe its world of warcraft time =)

i wish the game had new features (squad skins...individual skins you could personalize etc....new terrain and better maps).  that would have been a cooler change for me..but i understand and respect that it is hitech et al's game and they are doing what they think is right for it.

for now the BoPs and I will try to adapt..but since we are mainly about friendship and teamwork...the newest change is not friendly towards it. i have not posted since the newest change til tonight because honestly "I  GET THE MESSAGE" and now i have to decide what to do with it

Nice post ...

[SlapShot]

By the same token, if the furby leader (?) were to grow some and gather all the furbies to meet the challenge head on, we might have something.

Been there done that. Once they have been repelled ... they move and try to sneak in somewhere else.

I remember when flying for the MAW ... after a spoiled attack ... we would come back again and again ... trying to take the same field for hours sometimes. Such is not the case now ... once there is opposition ... they change their attack point hoping not to run into opposition ... after all ... taking an undefended base is the bomb.