Author Topic: princeton hacks a diebold machine. tells how. (Read 1182 times)

lukster · « **Reply #15 on:** October 31, 2006, 12:38:12 PM »

As I mentioned, the reference number, which is listed publicly to allow voters to review their votes on line, is protected. It's even possible that the link from person's identity to their reference number is known by no human being but created by and stored in a machine. Anytime someone believes their number is compromised they may simply request a new one.

What could be more cheat proof than everyone being able to count the votes themselves while verifying theirs was registered as desired?

Quote

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The way it's done in europe is that each voter has to display a valid ID before entering the voting booth. You then vote anonymously, drop the vote in the ballot and they will be counted anonymously.

If a voting is done electronically WITH voter ID the vote is no longer anonymous and this is very very bad for freedom of selection. All sorts of pressure could (and would) be put on people who voted against the winning party, or more likely, voters would be pressured before the vote to vote in a certain way, knowing the naysayers could be tracked afterwards.

Urchin · « **Reply #16 on:** October 31, 2006, 01:17:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
The problem is that when you have very political people running the counties and the polling stations, they can then control what happens.

And this is how half of all dead people end up voting. Mostly for democrats at that.

Source?

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 31, 2006, 01:55:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin
Source?

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061029/NEWS05/610290334/1021

To start with. I would go further into detail, especially with the Philadelphia enquirer reporting that a huge amount of dead people voted for gore in 2000, but I want to take a nap.

rpm · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2006, 02:05:48 PM »

I thought dipping your finger in ink was the solution?

WilldCrd · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:19:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lukster
The integrity of our voting system is absolutely essential. Hacking the voting machines makes little difference if we're gonna let ineligibles vote. What's all the fuss about a national ID card? Who here doesn't already have a driver's license? If you are opposed to a national ID please tell why and please make it more concrete than something nebulous about big brother.

Big Brother nebulous?

hmmm ok ill take a crack at this,
The reason im totally opposed to a NATIONAL ID card is mainly becouse of Big Brother or Big Government.
Yes i have a license actually its a class A-CDL. However it is STATE issued. Im not eve n gonna go into the history of the CDL and how THAT failed misserably except to generate revenue.
I dont want all my info tied together in one national ID card. I dont want the federal goverment to have easier access to track me.
i dont want marketers (and they will) to track me and my habits.

Heck why have a card, why not just get a bar code tattoo on our arms....oh yeah , it was done already and look how THAT turned out:aok

I still want to enjoy my privacy. After ID cards it will be microchip or RFID implants....no thank you.

So yeah Big Brother has EVERTHTHING to do with this issue and it damn sure aint nebulous!:furious

Urchin · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:26:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061029/NEWS05/610290334/1021

To start with. I would go further into detail, especially with the Philadelphia enquirer reporting that a huge amount of dead people voted for gore in 2000, but I want to take a nap.

Link didn't work for me...

I got this "Error: Invalid story key (BH,20061029,NEWS05,610290334,AR). Error: Invalid story key (BH,20061029,NEWS05,610290334,AR). Error: Invalid story key (BH,20061029,NEWS05,610290334,AR). Error: Invalid story key (BH,20061029,NEWS05,610290334,AR).
Error: Invalid story key (BH,20061029,NEWS05,610290334,AR). "

Speaking of the 2000 election, did you read "The best democracy money can buy"? Goes into some detail on the Florida election, it was pretty interesting reading.

Chairboy · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:30:29 PM »

I bet Laser has a curious blindness to all the electronic voting machines that are registering republican votes for folks who vote democrat. It's the Golly-geendest thing...

Gunthr · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:30:55 PM »

WilldCard, I think you might be making too much of it. You are already on paper, pal. You already have hundreds, if not thousands of public records tagged to your name, dob, and soc sec number, inlcuding your CDL. Many of these records are already in national data bases. :/ you already have a national identity. the photo ID would simply make it easier to make the identification as far as I can see.

Gunthr · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:32:18 PM »

Chairboy, I wouldn't be so sure that all the errors are in GOP favor... If you are, could you give a linky? My impression is that they know the reason why it happens, and poll workers are trained to reset the machines on the spot (which is underwelming in itself) but not due to hacking. Reportedly the same type of error occurs in the Poker video machines which are subject to the same error for some reason...

I just think there is no excuse for it.

WilldCrd · « **Reply #24 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:38:24 PM »

Some info after a quiky search

The advance of identification technology—biometrics, identity cards, surveillance, databases, dossiers—threatens privacy, civil liberties, and related human interests. Since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, demands for identification in the name of security have increased. In this insightful book, Jim Harper takes readers inside identification—a process everyone uses every day but few people have ever thought about. Using stories and examples from movies, television, and classic literature, Harper dissects identification processes and technologies, showing how identification works when it works and how it fails when it fails. Harper exposes the myth that identification can protect against future terrorist attacks. He shows that a U.S. national identification card, created by Congress in the REAL ID Act, is a poor way to secure the country or its citizens. A national ID represents a transfer of power from individuals to institutions, and that transfer threatens liberty, enables identity fraud, and subjects people to unwanted surveillance. Instead of a uniform, government-controlled identification system, Harper calls for a competitive, responsive identification and credentialing industry that meets the mix of consumer demands for privacy, security, anonymity, and accountability. Identification should be a risk-reducing strategy in a social system, Harper concludes, not a rivet to pin humans to governmental or economic machinery.

Linky

There is ALOT more info out there on why national id cards are bad

Better Info

Chairboy · « **Reply #25 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:40:08 PM »

Here's a recent story:
http://www.kfdm.com/engine.pl?station=kfdm&id=17343&template=breakout_dayportvideo.shtml

Gunthr · « **Reply #26 on:** October 31, 2006, 04:02:28 PM »

interesting information there. I don't know if I agree with all of it, though. The author may have an axe to grind. I don't think a national ID is a fix all, but I think that we may find that it may become necessity to quickly identify somebody in real time, and that will demand some form of ID based on a large database. Without it, identification just takes longer.

Maybe keeping it state issued would make you feel better, but if I can identify you with state ID, I am also able to access tens of thousands of public records from all across the nation, including voter registration files for elections, all present and past addresses, employers, hunting licenses, aircraft ownership, vessels, property, how many cylinders that are in the car parked in your driveway along with color, make and model, associates, family members, financial info, and so on.

I'm for states rights, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying we need at least state issued ID for elections. As for the national ID, it is inevitable in my opinion. 666 happened while we werent looking.

WilldCrd · « **Reply #27 on:** October 31, 2006, 04:11:57 PM »

Well, you correct gunther, you can acess my or anyones info however, it takes time. Its not all on the card.
if you go into a 7-11 and swipe your national
ID card then ALL your info is right there. Also the govt has already stated they would share your info with marketers.

besides right now i can still buy a boat and disapear really really easily. heck i dont really even need the boat but, i've always wanted a nice lil sail/house boat.
when these cards come out, ppl wont be able to do or buy hardly nothing if anything.
And if your state doesnt fall in line and spend the 11-13 BILLION that wont be reimbursed btw then your SOL.

Gunthr · « **Reply #28 on:** October 31, 2006, 04:13:23 PM »

Thanks Chair, but that one piece doesn't convince me that the glitch only changes Democratic votes to Republican. I'd have to see a lot more evidence than this. But I will say that it really, really makes me angry when I see a verified report about voting machine errors... even though I know that there have always been errors even with paper ballots. I'm reluctently thinking that we need a foolproof way to do this, and electronic voting may not be it.

You appear to believe the errors are a conspiricy without seeing a study or examination that provides cold facts - kind a like "faith", isn't it?

Gunthr · « **Reply #29 on:** October 31, 2006, 04:19:24 PM »

I know how you feel, Willdcard. I'm not completely sure about national ID myself... it reminds me of a Harlan Ellison novellete.