Race to the reset.

[Waffle]

Whirlblewinds and manned 88s! I'm not bending on this!...

[Yknurd]

Fly the DA!

I think it is already set up to minimize all the complaints I've read here.

All that's necessary is numbers.

Think of it like Fighter Town.

[edit] Maybe a large squad could commit numbers to a DA night which would entice others to join the fun.  Not a squad vs squad or squad vs everybody else, just using a large squad to gaurentee numbers.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Simaril
Dont think most guys who go for resets do it for the perks anyway. The ones I've heard crowing are excited over "the victory...we are teh best" feeling. (I've actaully heard some guys saying that stuff..."we are the best country!" Sheesh.)

Rather than major structural changes, wouldnt it make sense to put in the dynamic, per arena country cap the Slap talked about a couple weeks ago? The balance issue would resolve, and easy hording would be decreased.

More ack, and more mannable positions, and so forth would also help defenders...but would they also make it MORE necessary to horde to get capture?

The part I can't get around is the argument 'well why don't you just defend better?"  And when people say as hap did  

"Resetting map, winning the war, my objective. I've not switched countries for several years. Good or bad, winning or losing, I fly the same side and try to help my country win and avoid losing."

It's a poor attempt at making it sound noble somehow.  No war is won, a redo is done.  The war never ends.  Why isn't it about the fight?  I go low numbers hoping that at least I can up into the horde to fight.  But even that doesn't last if you defend at all decently.

49 was the perfect example for me last night.  We defended it with the guys we had.  So the other guys took everything around us.  There was no way for us, with our numbers to defend all the bases.  So there is no way to stop the mob from capturing undefended fields.  49 was undefended until we defended it.  And they couldn't take it.  But they could take everything else.  had we moved our few numbers to another field, we'd have given up 49.  

Now it was fun while they kept coming, and there were a few that kept coming back so we couldn't just move as we didn't know if the mob was otw.  At one point we had dar bars showing in every sector around us.  We hoped they were coming to 49.  We weren't in a position to really take it to them, although we did venture out a couple at a time to try and disrupt the incoming.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Yknurd
Fly the DA!

I think it is already set up to minimize all the complaints I've read here.

All that's necessary is numbers.

Think of it like Fighter Town.

And that's another of the overused answers.

This isn't about furballing for me.  This is about the fight.  We kinda like defending bases.  I enjoy a good 1 v 1 but I don't mind taking on the mob.  Heck, Raptor lives in the mob.  He's not happy if he isn't taking on 3-4 or more.

The point here is do we accept the emphasis of the game has evolved into racing to reset in the easiest possible way, or do we find a way to get the game back to people actually having to compete against other people.

It's a game not war.  I'm remined of my first copy of Madden football back on my old Apple II+.  You could design plays and set it up that you couldn't be stopped.

It was fun for about 5 minutes, but then it became pointless.  If the outcome is predetermined by the set up, then what's the point?

I think part of the problem is that 70-80% of the AH population prefers to have the outcomed predetermined and find satisfaction in that.

[Soulyss]

Originally posted by Fencer51
As I said in another thread, it appears that some people want something team related in game.  The only thing there presently, is base capture.  

I believe this to be an incorrect statement/belief although a widely held one. The idea that fighting other players is an individual/non-team related activity.  Even "mindless" furballing is at it's best when I have a couple squaddies on my wing and we're working together trying to keep our tails clear (preferrably against insurmountable odds with little or no chance of survival).  Just about any activity in the game can be team oriented and have a goal if you want it to be.  I see the issue in that people in general try or want it to be as easy as possible, when a challenge can often be more rewarding and fun.

[Waffle]

actually - you don't need to look farther than the historical progress to get the answers.

Dude A is flying recon in early WW1.....Dude A sees another recon plane nearby. Dude A shoots other plane with shotgun.

Dude B whos been shot goes home wounded and cursing. Dude B duct tapes shot guns to the top of his plane. Dude B goes back to fight. Dude B wins.

Dude A goes back and get machine guns and mounts them on swivels and above his top wing. He even gets a rear gunner to help defend, as well as toss some crude 12lb explosive on the ground from his plane. Dude A wins.


Dude B now comes up with a way to mount machine guns on nose and fire through the prop. In addition, he also gets a rear gunner and a bomb tosser.

Dude B wins.

Dude A finds Dude B's technology for mounting the machine gun on the nose.

Dude A and Dude B are now equals.

Now Dudes A and B's airplanes are getting faster and more heavily armed.
They now have technology to make their explosive bomb tossing more accurate.

Dude A starts attacking the ground. Dude B build lots of guns to shoot at Dude A from the ground. Dude B wins.

Dude A develops larger airplanes to carry more explosives. He drops them on Dude B's ground guns. Dude A wins.

Dude B develops better aircraft to get Dude A's big planes before they bomb his ground. Dude B wins

Dude A develops faster higher aircraft to protect his big planes from  Dude B's small planes.

The fight is on.

[Guppy35]

I'm all for the fight being on.

It just doesn't appear to be the main goal of many in AH

[Ball]

defending a base on my own against 5 people in the EW arena the other day, with me the only one online for knits and down to a few fields... shortly after landing another load of kills against the landgrabbers and suffering more cheat accusations one of them come out with a brilliant line...

"Knits will lose the war, that is all that matters" while another pointed out my high rank.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Yknurd
Fly the DA!

I think it is already set up to minimize all the complaints I've read here.

All that's necessary is numbers.

Think of it like Fighter Town.

[edit] Maybe a large squad could commit numbers to a DA night which would entice others to join the fun.  Not a squad vs squad or squad vs everybody else, just using a large squad to gaurentee numbers.

A classic example of someone completely missing the point! This discussion isn't about furballing vs toolsheading it about those who AVOID contact with the enemy in their glorious quest for the reset.

I cant count the number of time I have upped to defend, with the same people 90% of the time it seems, just to see the same result. The base capture heroes get frustrated and leave for an undefended field.

To me I just do not see the fun in capturing a base where no resistance is offered at all.

[Airscrew]

Originally posted by NoBaddy
Had a guy last night drove an M3 to a GV field. He must have driven for over an hour (no spawn). He then started demanding that someone come kill the ack for him. The nearest uncapped field was 75+ miles away. After 10 or 15 minutes of whining, he switched countries to do the same to his previous country. I then killed his C47 6 times in the next 20 minutes as he tried to capture another GV field (he did finally get it).

NB I think I ran into this guy last night, he tried to capture V70, just a lone C47, no fighter escort.

Last night a bunch of knits were trying to "Capture" the bish HQ  that was funny too,  "Troops OTW for HQ"  "Capture HQ and win the reset"  
After I explained to them that you bomb the HQ there must have been 5 or 6 trying to bomb that place.  

I'm thinking though that the 'Capture the HQ' might help with some of these issues.  I think a combination of Slap's idea, more ack and 88's at fields, add VHs to towns and strats, vehicle spawn points to strats, reset the map by either taking bases or capturing strats and HQ.  Or put a time limit on the map and winner is the side that shoots down the most planes and captures the most bases in that time limit.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Airscrew
NB I think I ran into this guy last night, he tried to capture V70, just a lone C47, no fighter escort.

Last night a bunch of knits were trying to "Capture" the bish HQ  that was funny too,  "Troops OTW for HQ"  "Capture HQ and win the reset"  
After I explained to them that you bomb the HQ there must have been 5 or 6 trying to bomb that place.  

I'm thinking though that the 'Capture the HQ' might help with some of these issues.  I think a combination of Slap's idea, more ack and 88's at fields, add VHs to towns and strats, vehicle spawn points to strats, reset the map by either taking bases or capturing strats and HQ.  Or put a time limit on the map and winner is the side that shoots down the most planes and captures the most bases in that time limit.

\

I said something similar a few months back. You must capture and hold a line of bases leading to the enemies HQ and then capture and hold the HQ for a set period of time to win the reset.

[Airscrew]

Originally posted by Clifra Jones
I said something similar a few months back. You must capture and hold a line of bases leading to the enemies HQ and then capture and hold the HQ for a set period of time to win the reset.

that combined with Hitech's (and someone else mentioned it too) idea about only the front line bases are captureable.   Make the bases and the strats capturable.  The push would be towards the HQ, with a final pitched battle to save HQ.  It may take a horde but then all the fighters would be along the same front.   There would still be strategy for those that want it with flanking attacks.  Upping the fuel burn a notch or too might help, (remember when a lot of people cried with fuel burn went from 1.5 to 2?) make it 2.5

[WMLute]

Change town ack from puffy back to AutoAck and you will see some changes.

That one change has made it almost stupid easy to capture airfields.

PLEASE change the town ack back to the way it was.

[eh]

I love the game as it is, but it would be a wonderful improvement if we could just get a system of meaningful strategic elements.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Guppy35
And that's another of the overused answers.

This isn't about furballing for me.  This is about the fight.  We kinda like defending bases.  I enjoy a good 1 v 1 but I don't mind taking on the mob.  Heck, Raptor lives in the mob.  He's not happy if he isn't taking on 3-4 or more.

The point here is do we accept the emphasis of the game has evolved into racing to reset in the easiest possible way, or do we find a way to get the game back to people actually having to compete against other people.

It's a game not war.  I'm remined of my first copy of Madden football back on my old Apple II+.  You could design plays and set it up that you couldn't be stopped.

It was fun for about 5 minutes, but then it became pointless.  If the outcome is predetermined by the set up, then what's the point?

I think part of the problem is that 70-80% of the AH population prefers to have the outcomed predetermined and find satisfaction in that.

Could also point out -

That current situation is a DIRECT result of the arena changes, not some bi-product of them.
Which can only lead me to the feeling that HT either seriously underestimated what would happen, or didn't realise what would happen.