Author Topic: Race to the reset.  (Read 5043 times)

Offline lazs2

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Race to the reset.
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2006, 02:21:58 PM »
I shy from solutions because, in the end..  what we suggest is unimportant.. been around HT and co lontg enough to know that they are gonna do what they think is best and... usually.. it is.

As far as the whorde hitting undefended bases... HT is maybe a victim of his own sucess here... All these new players and most of em are dead meat if the run into a red plane no matter what advantage in e and plane choice they have...

They all know this so they join a squad with an open door policy and 2 or three wings of these lemmings... and...  strict rules that guarentee success by whorde tactics and hitting undefended fields.

I don't see any alternative cause.... these guys get some kills this way but would get nothing if they had to compete.  

To focus on air combat is to focus like a lazer beam on the problem...  the guys doing the hamster wheel of field capture...  simply can't do anything else.... take that away from em and they will have to leave.

lazs
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Offline ghi

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Race to the reset.
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2006, 02:26:09 PM »
Another great post ,
 
 Try few more, you may get one month free,

  Who cares what you find fun in game ?! Did somebody ask you to stop furbaling and resup bases in C47 ?? Why are you  teaching others what to do for their money ?! Some guys love blondes, some brunettes, some enjoy GVs others bombing, The game ofers fun for all tastes, and as long as you don't pay my 15$, i do whatever i want,  

  Long live toolsheders !:aok
« Last Edit: November 14, 2006, 02:52:04 PM by ghi »

Offline Kev367th

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Race to the reset.
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2006, 02:27:54 PM »
Oh geez for once I partly agree with Lazs, OMG, best check sky isn't falling.

He is right, HT is a victim of his own success.

Problem (not so much a problem but a requirement) is the steep learning curve, always has been, always will be.

Heres the bigger problem -
Changes that drive away Vets in favor of just getting more and more people into the game will always result in what we have now.
You are now relying on two week freebies to sign up take the time to learn the game and become the 'new' vets.
Most won't.

[edit] Starting to wonder if part of the solution may be to do away with scores and the 'rank' system. After all the score/rank system is meaningless anyway.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2006, 02:46:08 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline BugsBunny

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Re: Race to the reset.
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2006, 02:34:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
So we hop to Latewar Orange.  It's 30 Rooks, 90 Bish, 90 Knights.  Ahh the hopless defense.  Good fun while it lasted, but there was no way to defend enough places to stop the reset.  Boom.  Reset.

So we come back in and it starts again.  6-7 of us defend 49 from the crowd.  Again the fight was fun while it lasted and in the end, at least by the time I logged off, we still held it.  


Sounds like you had fun.  Also, if you stop limiting your self to the 38 and decide to get your hands dirty an try a lala, you can have fun taking down 10 of the horders before you die.  I know, lala is not cool but . . .

Anyway, if you had fun as you say, what is the complain?

Offline Kweassa

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Explanations, Predictions, Suggestions
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2006, 02:50:40 PM »
Explanations

 The community has grown larger, and not all of its members hail from the "prestigious line" of old aerial sim veterans who joined the great venture into the world of aerial combat simulations at the dawn of personal computers and electronic gaming. This "line", has experienced almost all of the changes in the field from text-based simulations to the latest games up to date. It met it's highest peak during the days of Air Warrior, War Birds, and subsequently first Aces High. This line of vets were the original "geeks", when playing computer games was not considered as something a respectable grown man should do. They formed the first WW2 combat sim community that overlapped each different games upto a certain poinr - when you met some guy in AW, you'd see the same guy playing WB, then you'd see him playing AH or IL-2 nowadays.

 However, the advancement of technology in the field of computers have brought up games as a significant medium of entertainment. The market expands. Children nowadays consider games as the most favored form of play - "gaming" is now synonimous with "playing" for this new generation. We had young people playing baseball or basketball or soccer in the late 80's and early 90's. Nowadays they play computer games. This expansion in the gaming industry and market has brought into the world of WW2 simulation a significant "alien factor" which is unfamiliar to the "old line of vets" and their small community.

 This new element in the sim community still does have a common factor as the "vets" do - curiosity towards the history of the second World War, passion towards flight, the urge to experience aerial combat which so frequently depicted in variety of sources such as books or movies. However, despite the similarities, the motives and expectations they have for combat sims is totally different from the "vets" all together.

 The vets have more or less become accustomed to accepting the technical limitations in simulating aerial combat. Since there was no way to put up a big warring environment on-line at the beginning stages of on-line gaming, generally the thrill of aerial combat itself was all that mattered. The thrill of individual (or limited multiple) engagements was all they had and all that mattered. They loved enjoying the small aspect of it all- a handful few people, all good friends, locked in aerial combat flying historical planes. A very small, limited scale of depicting WW2 combat, but it was good enough for them.

 Because there was nothing else, people competed to become a good pilot. An EXCELLENT pilot, as a matter of fact. There was no such thing as a 'war' going on which they could influence.  Therefore, the spirit of competition and gaming fun was expressed through the only thing they could achieve while playing the archaic flight sims, packaged sims with limited multiplater capability, and the earliest on-line flight sims.

 However, the "aliens" - the younger, newer generation of gamers which now coexist with the "vets" in the sim community, come from a very different background; they are accustomed to computer gaming, the internet age opens when they are teens, computer games become more sophisticated and complex, and new horizons opened for all types of games to be able to depict and recreate things which they could not do so before.

 These "aliens" have totally different motives and aspirations when they see games like Aces High. They don't play it just for the fun of aerial combat itself - they play it because it is a total gaming experience, which at least loosely depicts the aspect of "war". Not only are they able to enhoy individual combat, they are also able top play a role in a larger scale which takes combined effort for many people to accomlish its final object.

 Simply put, it is indeed a "race to reset". They view it as nothing else. It is the ultimate goal and the ultimate fun factor. Their emphasis in competition is not set upon the individual pilot, but how each one's "country" does in the virtual environment. Frankly, not only is there nothing wrong with it, but also there is no way to stop it. It is an inevitable change as long as AH community grows.


Predictions

The "vets" are entering extinction. The "aliens" are breeding like rats. Sooner or later, the line of the old vets will be lost, and the aliens will replace the flight combat sim world. Unless AH goes retro about 10 years and kicks out everyone who doesn't agree with the "vets", this tendency will go on and on until; 1) AH finally restructures its entire strat system to better accomodate such changes while balancing out/refining the weaker points of its gameplay, or 2) a better game comes out which depicts WW2 strat in a much more fun way.

 There have been attempts at 2) - such as IL-2 series or WW2OL. However, problems in both of those games have prevented it from becoming the predominant game which would outclass AH. But it is only a matter of time until someone finally "gets it". While IL-2's limited MP capabilites is the single most limiting factor, its developers have recently announced aspirations to bring it up to the MMOG world. Whether this is only talk, or they are really planning on it is unknown. However, if there is any bit of amount of truth on it, then it'll become the largest threat to the survival of AH, ever.


Suggestions

 The "vets" must understand this tide of "aliens" is something that cannot be stopped. It is an irreversible process. Therefore, if they cannot stop it, then they should learn to enjoy it.

 Ofcourse, this implies that during the course of next five years or so, the MA format of Aces High must be changed. Many of the problems which persist in the MA that the "vets" view as unfavorable, is not necessarily associated with the "alien invasion".

 In other words, the reason the MA is not fun for many "vets", is not because there are too many "aliens" around. It is because the game failed to accomodate the "alien factor", which in turn corrupted the MA into an abnormal display of brute power, rather than becoming a more structured representation of a "generic, WW2-ish, war" which should in theory, still contain many of the fun factors which the "vets" hold on to so dearly.

 It is a failure of the outdated strat system which was never intended to accomodate the alienfolk that is accelerating discontent. As I have argued many times the AH strat system was by all intentions and means nothing much more than a simple "stage" which the "old vets" were meant to act on. They were nothing more than facades of a war which is comprised of a very simple component of territorial struggle -  you barge in with deadly force, capture the field, advance in territory, repeat ad nauseam, and you win.

 Consider the MA as a game of poker. The current MA is like people playing poker with an unlimited amount of money (or toy money, if you will). Because of this, the basics of playing a poker game is totally lost. People just raise and call stuff like hell. Bluffing doesn't work because the amount of money on the table is unlimited. People call wild shots, change cards in an illogical sequence, even counting the cards don't help. They don't think anything through. Who cares if they lose some money? The supply is unlimited.

 However, if the MA can be restructured so it can better depict a generic version of war based on the image of WW2, (albeit without limitations by nationality in planes or by era of their introduction) then the problems will stop. Internal logic of the strat mechanics, and strategical aspects will become the "leash" which does not exist in the current MA. Each players of all three countries will be bound and govered by (simulated) realities war that will ultimately prevent them from relying on pure brute force to win the war. Each of the battles competing for air superiority will become more important, player movement and mobilization will become limited, logistics will intervene, and therefore, every plane or pilot lost in the air will gain some sort of meaning.

 This means introducing real money in that game of chaotic poker. A new type of strat will ensure that. People can't just waste planes or flock to single places, go here and there at whim. There are now multiple factors to consider. And as soon as real money is put on the table, people start playing straight. All the subtle individual skills such as sharking or bluffing, card counting and stuff now works. The game becomes much more centered in winning with individual hands dealt.

 Fuel and ammo supplies. Logistics and road systems. Economic facilities and attrition. Limited number of planes (or pilots) for field. Structured organization. Concept of different 'airforces', each  taking charge of one of the two battle fronts a single country has. Introduction of ground forces. Changing the point of capture from individual fields to important economic/logistic points. Disallowing direct capture of ground targets by air forces alone. New radar systems.

 No, "vets".

 This does not make turn the game more "toolshed bustin' ".

 It turns the game into "bustin' toolsheds more carefully and critically, which requires gaining local airsuperiority with limited numbers of planes, pilots, and resources... which in turn, will emphasize on small~medium scaled localized air combat of roughly comparable number of opponents on both sides... which will bring back some of the thrill of individual air combat which the current MA has lost."

Offline Treize69

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Re: Re: Race to the reset.
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2006, 02:51:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BugsBunny
Also, if you stop limiting your self to the 38 and decide to get your hands dirty an try a lala, you can have fun taking down 10 of the horders before you die.  I know, lala is not cool but . . .


Its more fun to take down 5 or 6 in a plane that everyone underestimates that to take 10 in the same ride as everyone else.
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Re: Race to the reset.
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2006, 03:02:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BugsBunny
Sounds like you had fun.  Also, if you stop limiting your self to the 38 and decide to get your hands dirty an try a lala, you can have fun taking down 10 of the horders before you die.  I know, lala is not cool but . . .

Anyway, if you had fun as you say, what is the complain?


Not a complaint so much as an observation.  I just hadn't seen the race to reset become such an obsession until the last week or so.  Bases falling like dominos at rapid fire rate and the resets happening what seems like all the time I fly. (Probably my fault :) )

I sure don't mind dying, since I'm not really dead, and yes i had fun while it lasted.  It just seems strange that no one seems to want that fun to last in their effort to 'win the war."
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Offline NoBaddy

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Race to the reset.
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2006, 03:09:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
If the outcome is predetermined by the set up, then what's the point?

I think part of the problem is that 70-80% of the AH population prefers to have the outcomed predetermined and find satisfaction in that.



As a generality, it is accurate to say.... people will always take the path of least resistance in any endeavor. I guess it really isn't that surprising that things would go this way when you stop and think about it. The question, I guess, is can the game be salvaged or is it going to remain simply "capture the flag" with airplanes?
NoBaddy (NB)

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Offline BugsBunny

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Re: Re: Re: Race to the reset.
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2006, 03:13:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Not a complaint so much as an observation.  I just hadn't seen the race to reset become such an obsession until the last week or so.  Bases falling like dominos at rapid fire rate and the resets happening what seems like all the time I fly. (Probably my fault :) )

I sure don't mind dying, since I'm not really dead, and yes i had fun while it lasted.  It just seems strange that no one seems to want that fun to last in their effort to 'win the war."


Bah, just bad luck man.  It has always been like that, in my opinion.

Offline ghi

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Re: Explanations, Predictions, Suggestions
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2006, 03:14:49 PM »
Deleted

Offline BugsBunny

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Re: Re: Re: Race to the reset.
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2006, 03:16:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Treize69
Its more fun to take down 5 or 6 in a plane that everyone underestimates that to take 10 in the same ride as everyone else.


In reality it is not. You just feel that you are better because you are in inferior plane.  When was the last time you took down all 5 or 6 in 6 vs 1 in any ride?

Offline workerbee

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Race to the reset.
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2006, 03:17:06 PM »
MAKE PERKS FOR KILLZ ONLY.

New map reset once a week OR winning war.

PERK THE LA7 & THE SPIXTEEN- they can have the spit 8 & 9, the Nik, and the cane2 for free.
\
Perk formations, solo buffs free.

That wouldnt take much to change- & it would definately put a damper on those who fly EZmode hordes. It wouldnt hurt any AH ole timers.

Offline john9001

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Race to the reset.
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2006, 03:18:34 PM »
as soon as the CT is running  the furballers can have the MA sandbox all to themselves.

Offline FiLtH

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Race to the reset.
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2006, 03:25:01 PM »
You also have to remember alot of these new guys have just found something awesome. No more playing offline games..remember that feeling?

     They are perfectly content. Give em a couple years and they will be in the same boat. Then they will be complaining about the next batch of new guys.

      I wish they would either go back the way it was, or atleast put side balance in the game that was enforced by the game and not relied on the players to do it with eny. I would never have suggested that before, because Im a squad guy. But lately I rarely see any of my squad. So a balanced arena of lone wolves would be more to my liking than the way it is now.

    As far as the gameplay...blowing up stuff and capturing bases is the way the game is. The fighters in the arena are pretty much an "also ran" as far as the gameplay is concerned.

~AoM~

Offline Masherbrum

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Race to the reset.
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2006, 03:26:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
When one side reaches a perk mod of 4.00....

enable NOOKS on the lowest number side!




Had to post it! :D
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