Can you stand after being tased?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

You have to excuse us nordic people for thinking this kind of behaviour is over the top. You see, we don't have police on the campus, ID controls or constant fear of attack. We're used to be able to move around freely, from that standpoint alone it feels extreme just to have a law officer controlling the access to the premises to start with.

I'm sure the actions are necessary in your situation. It can be hard for us sometimes to understand though. Many things are so much different in our societies.

[-Concho-]

I was always told never lay hands on unless your going to arrest the person.

As far as the kids demanding a badge number , they need to STFU or they will be joining thier friend.

When thing cool down, then we talk.

I agree with x0847Marine.  I've had my nose broken five times and there are places on my head that won't grow hair because of the scars.

If I don't have to get close, I won't.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
You have to excuse us nordic people for thinking this kind of behaviour is over the top. You see, we don't have police on the campus, ID controls or constant fear of attack. We're used to be able to move around freely, from that standpoint alone it feels extreme just to have a law officer controlling the access to the premises to start with.

I'm sure the actions are necessary in your situation. It can be hard for us sometimes to understand though. Many things are so much different in our societies.

Keep in mind these ID checks, as stated, don't start until after 11PM.  It isn't a police state on campuses for the most part.

[Shamus]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
You have to excuse us nordic people for thinking this kind of behaviour is over the top. You see, we don't have police on the campus, ID controls or constant fear of attack. We're used to be able to move around freely, from that standpoint alone it feels extreme just to have a law officer controlling the access to the premises to start with.

I'm sure the actions are necessary in your situation. It can be hard for us sometimes to understand though. Many things are so much different in our societies.

Do you have to be an over 50 american to see the irony in this statement?

shamus

[Speed55]

The kid that got tased sounded liking a whining know it all sweetheart. How many times do you have to be told to do something before you do it?  Get up means GET UP.  If he couldn't move, he could have said so. "i can't feel my legs officer, give me a minute and i'll co-operate." Instead he went on a tyraid* about being opressed, and caused a bigger scene.
I thought the screams were great though.

In all honesty the most vocal people there, asking for the cops id and all that probably have the same mentality. I really don't understand what the big deal was.  If he would have just co-operated from the beginning the cops never would have been called. If he would have co-operated with the cops, he wouldn't have been tased. Every action has a reaction, problem is, he or the witnesses either didn't know what the reaction would be, or just didn't like it.

[DREDIOCK]

Took a few days to respond to this.
I wanted to get other opinions and see if they matched my own.
So far the only people IRL outside fo the boards who agree with how the cops handled it are not surprisingly. Cops

There they are almost unanimous. Which doesnt really surprise me.

Literally everyone outside of law enforcement that IO have either showed this to. or has seen or heard about it already Agree that yes the kid was being a total A-hole But.. they are also appalled byt the actions taken by the cops.

I am a little less then apalled (Disgusted is a better word) but IMO it was an example of exessive force used IMO which could have and should have been handled much better.

Now I havetn seen or read everything on what went on I am only going by what the initial video shows. So if he toook a swing at or otherwise tried to be violent himself I dont know.
I am only goig by the first video posted
But
IMO unless and untill someone is being physically violent to you. or attempting to
 You dont have the right to be brutal with someone for simply refusing to follow your commands.
If thats the way the sytem works. then there is something very very wrong with the system.

You only apply violence when met or threatened with violence.
Afraid to get hit?
Tough. Those are the types of chances you get paid to take.
Dont like it? Dont do the job

Now if he had atempted violence himself  or produced a weapon then they had every reason to Taz him as that would be considered a violent act.

Nothing short of that justifies this action.

Reguardless of how the kid was acting up yelling the cops are getting them some bad bad PR with this one.

Had they after telling him repeatedly to  get up and leave. Pinned him to the floor,cuffed him, and dragged him away. I doubt anyone would have had a complaint. and the kid would have looked like exactly how he was behaving and A-hole.

note nobody became alarmed or more then interested in what was going on untill they started repeatedly tazing him.
Once that happpened. Then they became alarmed with the amount and type of force being used.
And rightly so.

Personally I think those cops were very fortunate not to get stormed by a mob themselves as a result.

Just got done talking to my son about this
This is big big news on my sons campus as I would imagine many colleges across the country now

I'll C&P what he just told me

"most peope ive been talking to who read or saw this said things like this is why they hate cops"
" Excessive force by far, unnecessary"
Dont think thats exatly the kind of things cops want to hear.
But thats the general feeling going around his campus right now

the police should be trusted and respected
not feared and loathed.
but with stuff like this
thats exactly what they are going ot get

In the end I suspect a lawsuit is goign to follow and the kid is goiing to get a nice sized judgement awarded to him.
For being a jerk

[lukster]

I'm not a cop and if the kid was being belligerent as it appeared he was then they should have tased him until he complied. It causes no permanent damage, other than perhaps to his ego when his classmates see him squeeling like a little girl.

I think he staged the whole thing.

[DREDIOCK]

Curious as to the effects Tazing might have one someone with a heart condition.

Any time you shoot someone with electicity. Of any kind  There is an enherant risk of causing leathal damage

Or so Ive been told over and over again

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by lukster
It causes no permanent damage, other than perhaps to his ego when his classmates see him squeeling like a little girl.

I think he staged the whole thing.

Please define permanant Damage

Or isnt Death permanant enough for ya?

Taser dafety claim questioned
"The Republic's review of autopsies and interviews with medical examiners found Tasers have been linked to at least five deaths
Medical examiners in three cases involving suspects who died in police custody cited Tasers as a cause or a contributing factor in the deaths. In two other cases, Tasers could not be ruled out as a cause of death"

Pheonix suspect Dies after 4 Taser hits

"His death marks the second time in a week that someone died after a Taser shock and comes only two days after the mayor of Birmingham, Ala., ordered police there to stop using Tasers because of concerns over the stun gun’s safety.

More than 130 people, including four men in the Valley, have died after police Taser shocks since 1999.

Taser International, the Scottsdale manufacturer of the stun gun, maintains that its weapons have never caused a death or serious injury.

But an ongoing investigation by The Arizona Republic shows that the gun has been cited by medical examiners in 17 cases

Stunned to Death

"According to Amnesty International, an international human rights group, in a statement March of this year they have logged at least 156 deaths across the country in the last five years from stun guns used by police"

Study questions Stun Guns Safety

" As investigators study why a 14-year-old went into cardiac arrest after being hit with a Taser in Chicago, some new research raises questions on the Taser's safety.
the study, done by the Air Force and obtained by CBS News, found that repeated shocks from a Taser stun gun led to heart damage in pigs.

Specifically, the study examined the pigs' blood and found a jump in the enzyme Troponin T, the body's clearest sign of heart injury. It also found the pigs suffering high levels of blood acid, a potentially life threatening condition called acidosis.

"It's a red flag," says Dr. Charles Rackley, a respected cardiologist at Georgetown University Hospital.
Asked what his diagnosis would be if a patient came to him with these blood levels, Rackley says, "My initial impression would be that meant some heart muscle damage, or heart attack."

[lukster]

I suppose there is some possibility of dying due to stress just by being arrested. I think the evidence shows that if there is permanent damage it is rare. Would you rather the cops just shoot someone who is physically resisting arrest?

[Maverick]

Dred,

Keep in mind that the video didn't start until well after the situation started. Look at it again and not that there is 30 seconds of video, late as it is before the tazer was used. Listen carefully and note the repeated commands to the suspect to get up. I would think that a rational person would get up after the first hit.

Of course with the audio only on the video because it starts well back in the library all we have is the screaming to indicate that there were repeated tazer hits. We certainly have no idea how much of the screaming and yelling was due to tazer of just bad acting for the crowd. If you have never had an experiance with a suspect "playing to the crowd" it's a real "treat".

Now you already had an opinion about the tazer and that's fine. You consider it brutal. Having had to do the wrestling and fighting on the ground with an uncooperative suspect I'd rather the pain all be one way. The problem with having to actually fight the suspect is that some one usually gets hurt.

Like I said in an earlier post this was a lose lose situation for the Officers responding. No matter what they do, the suspect is going to claim some violation of his "rights" and some kind of injury. You bet there will be a law suit. Hell I'd bet he had a lawyer inside of 12 hours. This is not an uncommon method to boost income by creating a situation where a suit will be filed.

[Vulcan]

taser karma:

Policeman tasers himself and teenager at domestic dispute
18 November 2006  

An Auckland policeman attending a domestic dispute in Auckland accidentally blasted himself and a teenager with a Taser, before pepper-spraying an innocent woman.

The constable was attending the incident at a central Auckland home when he shocked himself, the 16-year-old and then later pepper-sprayed the 21-year-old woman, The New Zealand Herald reported today.

The constable was reloading his weapon when he accidentally blasted himself with the Taser's 50,000 volts while trying to stun a man at the centre of the domestic incident on October 1.

One shot accidentally struck the man's teenage son.

After five attempts to hit the man, the officer eventually used pepper spray but hit the man's 21-year-old daughter – an unintended target.

The man eventually gave himself up. The constable, who had had Taser training, was not injured.

The taser is being tested by frontline policemen in Auckland and Wellington.

An official police update of the Taser trial, published on October 17, made no mention of the constable firing five times, or missing his target, zapping himself or hitting the boy, the newspaper reported.

[Maverick]

Vulcan,

[Rolex]

Originally posted by Maverick
Dred,

I would think that a rational person would get up after the first hit.

I would agree with that, Mav. However, how would a rational person reaction to this?

A. Person told to do X. Person does X. Get's tazed.

B. Person told to do Y.

What would you do?

We don't have video or audio of what led to the first tazing. There are reports he was complying with X (leaving the library) when he was tazed because the officers didn't like what he was saying. If that is the case, is it alright to zap half the people who post here?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Maverick
Dred,

Keep in mind that the video didn't start until well after the situation started. Look at it again and not that there is 30 seconds of video, late as it is before the tazer was used. Listen carefully and note the repeated commands to the suspect to get up. I would think that a rational person would get up after the first hit.

Of course with the audio only on the video because it starts well back in the library all we have is the screaming to indicate that there were repeated tazer hits. We certainly have no idea how much of the screaming and yelling was due to tazer of just bad acting for the crowd. If you have never had an experiance with a suspect "playing to the crowd" it's a real "treat".

Now you already had an opinion about the tazer and that's fine. You consider it brutal. Having had to do the wrestling and fighting on the ground with an uncooperative suspect I'd rather the pain all be one way. The problem with having to actually fight the suspect is that some one usually gets hurt.

Like I said in an earlier post this was a lose lose situation for the Officers responding. No matter what they do, the suspect is going to claim some violation of his "rights" and some kind of injury. You bet there will be a law suit. Hell I'd bet he had a lawyer inside of 12 hours. This is not an uncommon method to boost income by creating a situation where a suit will be filed.

 Had he been violent in such a way that he actually attempted to assult the officers. I would say fine. zap away

But Yelling and refusing to move inand of itself is not a violent act.


As such Violence at least at that particular level is as of yet unwarranted.

I can understand how anyone would want the pain to be all one way.
But And as I said. The risk of receiving violence comes with the job
Its what your paid for
Exactly why you cant sue your police Dept of your shot in the line of duty.
that danger. Comes with the job.

That does does not justify being the first to initiate violence.
At least not on that level.

Particularly repeatedly. Once he was tases the first time he should have then been physically sudued and cuffed. There certainly were enough police there to accomplish this.

Any time you shoot someone with electricity. you are risking a danger of lethality or causing permanent damage.
And especially when its repeated.

I feel for cops. I really do. they have one hell of a tough job and I sure as hell wouldnt want it.

Was this kid wrong? Helll yea.
But that doesnt make these particular cops right.

Had he or if it is shown he tried to take a swing at one of them I would and will be be in full support of the use of the taser as many times as it took for him to be less physically agressive.

But sitting and yelling is not an overtly agressive act
As such I cannot find any legitimate justification for a repeated tasing other then because they could do it.

the Taser I am sure can be a great tool when used under the correct circumstances.

I just dont see that situation as being the correct circumstances.
Certainly not repeadedly anyway

Just because you can do something does not always mean you should.