Banning cluster munitions.

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by Hornet33
That last video was a Battery of MLRS. To be specific it was A Brty 1/158FA Oklahoma National Guard out of Lawton OK. I know because I was there when that video was filmed during Desert Storm. Not all our launchers fired on that mission. I believe we kept 2 on standby in case we needed to hit a target again or for counter battery fire. A battery of MLRS consists of:

9 M270 SPLL, Self Propelled Loader Launchers (1st platoon, 3 squads of 3 launchers)
27 M985 HEMTT, Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck (2nd platoon, 3 squads of 9 trucks)
5 M577 and assorted light vehichles for the FDC group and survey section (3rd platoon)
HQ platoon with the TOC, commo, maintence groups.

Standard rocket for the MLRS is the M26. 644 submunitions per rocket.

Artillery is the King of Battle.

Hornet in that last clip right at the end the camera pans up and you can just see sparks, do the missiles hit eachother very often?  Or was it something else?

[red26]

Hornet in that last clip right at the end the camera pans up and you can just see sparks, do the missiles hit eachother very often? Or was it something else?

Hello sir I think that was just the light reflecting on the lence of the cammera. I have been on a lot of live fire opp's and I have never seen the rockets make contact.

How about you Hornet.

Oh and Hornet to your Brty, for the Video for it just goes to show that the Artillery is the King of Battle.

Hornet from a fellow 13M HOOOAAAHHHH!!!!!:aok

[VOR]

Why you guys call yourselves the King of Battle while you're 30k behind the lines I'll never know.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Nilsen
So you support the use of cluster munitions then because they make war more terrible?

I support the use of cluster munitions because they are effective.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Where they using the new MK82s or SFWs?  If not I rest my case.

AFAIK, the MK-82 is not a cluster munition. It's a 500 lb. bomb.

[red26]

Why you guys call yourselves the King of Battle while you're 30k behind the lines I'll never know.

by,VOR

Because everyone calls on us when there in a JAM!!!  EVERYONE!!

Remember I was a SAPPER too so I know who the King of battle is and it is the Artillery.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by VOR
Why you guys call yourselves the King of Battle while you're 30k behind the lines I'll never know.

Ah yes, Artillery the King of battle. Infantry the Queen of battle. Why? Because the Queen tells the King where to put the balls.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Sandman
AFAIK, the MK-82 is not a cluster munition. It's a 500 lb. bomb.

oops....was thinking the old Mk20 and the new CBU97...don't know why I typed 82

[Hornet33]

Originally posted by red26
Hello sir I think that was just the light reflecting on the lence of the cammera. I have been on a lot of live fire opp's and I have never seen the rockets make contact.

How about you Hornet.

Oh and Hornet to your Brty, for the Video for it just goes to show that the Artillery is the King of Battle.

Hornet from a fellow 13M HOOOAAAHHHH!!!!!:aok

back at ya. Class 40-90 1/31st

No I have never seen a midair collision from the rockets. They aren't fired on the same trajectory so they will not hit each other. IIRC we were firing on 5 different targets on that one mission. Now I have seen a fin failure on a rocket. That was during DS and it was a night shoot. The rocket came out of the tube and then spiraled straight up in the air. Never found out where that one landed but it scared the crap out of everyone. The sparks in the video were from the rocket motors buring out. You end up with some burning debries coming out of them since they are solid fuel motors. Makes for a kickprettythang light show at night.

[Hornet33]

Originally posted by Maverick
Ah yes, Artillery the King of battle. Infantry the Queen of battle. Why? Because the Queen tells the King where to put the balls.

The Genesis of the Field Artillery

1. In the beginning there was chaos and the chaos was the
infantry, for the infantry was alone.

2. And fear was with the infantry and they cried unto the
Lord saying, "Lord, save us for we are afraid."

3. And the Lord heard their grunts and set some of the
infantry on beasts of burden and these he called
cavalry, and the cavalry became armor.

4. And when the lord had seen what he had done, he laughed
saying, "Well, you can't win them all."

5. The infantry and the armor again cried out to the Lord
saying, "Lord, save us for we are afraid." And the Lord
heard their cries and decided to end their weepings.

6. And the Lord said unto them, "Lo and behold, I send you
a race of men noble in heart and spirit," and the Lord
created the Gunners.

7. And the Lord said unto the infantry and armor, "When
it gets dark, the Gunners shall light your way."

8. "And when you need smoke, there shall be smoke, and
when you need HE, WP, H & I and counter battery fire,
all this ye shall have."

9. And the Lord gave the Gunners big guns, and field guns,
and the infantry and armor were jealous for they had
naught.

1O. And the infantry cried out saying, "Lord, thou hast
created the infantry as Queen of Battles, and now thou
has made the Gunners King of Battles and well knowest
thou what the King does to the Queen."

11. And the Lord replied, "Right On!"

12. And the Lord gave unto the Artillery rockets and
missiles and, best of all, nukes. And when the infantry
and armor saw this they fell to their knees in wonder
saying, "Surely God is on the side of the greatest
-The Gunners."

13. And the Lord sayeth, "You got that right."

14. Now abideth infantry, armor and Artillery but the
greatest of these is Artillery.

- Author Unknown

[Hornet33]

Here's anouther one I love.

I Am the Field Artillery

by John J. McMahon and Patricia S. Hollis

I am the United States Field Artillery. I fly the skies with my light forces, sail the sea with my Marines and pound the ground with my heavy forces. I see with satellites, touch with my terrible thunder and taste the sweet glory of victory. I am everywhere-mobile, agile and lethal. I Deal in Steel.

I was born of necessity in 1775 when the British fired upon our militia at Lexington and Concord. My six-pounder cannons were captured field pieces, drawn by oxen from battlefield to battlefield. I crossed the Delaware River with Washington on Durham boats and wintered at Valley Forge. At the moment of victory at Yorktown, it was I who fired the decisive rounds. I am Firepower for Freedom.

I was called to defeat the British again in 1812. I fired for the charge at Chippewa, out-dueling the Royal Artillery and carrying the day. I was there at the Battle of New Orleans with my lethal lanyards pulling devastation down on our enemy. Then in 1846, I stood fast against the superior forces of Santa Anna. The Mexicans came close enough to smell the smoke of my cannons and feel the deadly sting of my "grape" as my Flying Artillery bombarded the battlefield. I Rule with Thundering Steel.

And then in 1861, with my muzzle-loaded guns and my observers positioned by my side, I saw us torn apart by the War Between the States. I was there on both sides with the Blue and the Gray. My fires decided victory at Malvern Hill, Antietam, Shiloh, Chancellorsville and Gettysburg. I am Mind-Numbing, Bone-Shattering Savagery.

I was part of the American Expeditionary Force that, under General Black Jack Pershing, helped defeat the Kaiser and the German Army in 1918. I had larger cannons, but my main arm was the French 75-mm gun drawn into battle position by horses. As World War II approached and the forces I fired for became more mobile, I moved by trucks and became armored Field Artillery. With my Priest 105-mm self-propelled howitzer and my observers forward with the tankers and infantrymen, I adjusted my ferocious fires for our forces. I massed fires by battery, battalion, Div Arty and even dealt my death by corps artillery. I am the Greatest Killer on the Battlefield.

I was there in the mountains of Korea and jungles of Vietnam. From Pusan and Inchon north to the Yalu, the pounding of my 155-mm towed guns helped bring about the Peace Accord at Panmunjom in 1953. In fire bases in Vietnam and with my airmobile firepower, it was I who brought howitzer hell to the enemy for our maneuver forces, using my multiple field pieces-105, 155, 175 and 203. I am Death on Call.

I was there for the Cold War as America stood her ground for international democracy. I gave her my Lance and then the mighty Pershing missile, which forced our opponents to the negotiating table. Though I never fired a missile in anger, my Pershing Peacemaker was strategic. I am Persuasive Power for Peace.

And I'll be there when you need me. I am ubiquitous on the battlefield. I can focus my firepower like a flashlight beam, raining death and destruction down upon our foe. My "rockets red glare" is now white-hot from six-packs of steel-rapid, far-reaching and awesome. The autonomous actions of my howitzers can shell out hell to bring our enemy to his knees. And when I'm done, he'll bow before me because -- I am and always will be The King of Battle.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Sandman
I support the use of cluster munitions because they are effective.

Nobody doubts they are effective. The sad thing is that they are a type of weapon that remains effective long after the battle is over and the troops have left the area. A nuke would also be effective on sertain targets but that does not mean they should be allowed on the battlefield does it?

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by Hornet33
back at ya. Class 40-90 1/31st

No I have never seen a midair collision from the rockets. They aren't fired on the same trajectory so they will not hit each other. IIRC we were firing on 5 different targets on that one mission. Now I have seen a fin failure on a rocket. That was during DS and it was a night shoot. The rocket came out of the tube and then spiraled straight up in the air. Never found out where that one landed but it scared the crap out of everyone. The sparks in the video were from the rocket motors buring out. You end up with some burning debries coming out of them since they are solid fuel motors. Makes for a kickprettythang light show at night.

Ahh makes sense because he wasnt looking that far up until later in the video.

[lazs2]

nelson... so you would be content if we banned cluster munitions but had a way to send just as many munitions into an area delivered one at a time?

lazs

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Nilsen
Nobody doubts they are effective. The sad thing is that they are a type of weapon that remains effective long after the battle is over and the troops have left the area. A nuke would also be effective on sertain targets but that does not mean they should be allowed on the battlefield does it?

I think that there are refinements in cluster munitions that reduce  significantly the number of duds, if any. This is particularly true if you want to have your forces occupy the same ground once the previous tenents stop objecting.

FWIW there are also duds with conventional artillery and air dropped munitions as well. They are just much bigger booms than a cluster submunition.

As to the nuke statement. If you don't think a nuke belongs on a battlefield, where exactly would you expect to use one? Oh and BTW there are contingency plans for that very thing. I hope as fervently as you, that it never comes to that situation.