Author Topic: Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing  (Read 4103 times)

Offline gusman

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2006, 04:20:02 PM »
Like I said The Man Was A Legend

Legend n "Any person of extraordinary accomplishment." [/B][/QUOTE]

I think Bader was concerned about the Cannons jamming. At the time cannons were in their "beta" stage and Bader wanted weapons that he knew he could count on.

gusman44

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Offline TequilaChaser

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2006, 04:21:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nomak

Does this answer you question TC?.  Shall I continue?  
 


no need at all almighty one

#1- I never pointed any single individual out, or pointed a finger directly at anyone in this post

#2- I guess the shoe must of fit, huh Dave?  you spoke up 1st

#3- Nomak, your "EGO" really does have an ugly side at times, is a shame really
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline hitech

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2006, 04:29:26 PM »
and I looked at the films.

Hurri you hit him with 2 rounds, plus you have no way of knowing if he was damaged before.

In the f4 you took 15 hits.

Quote

Repeatedly, in EW and MW a single 20mm cannon round takes off a wing


You make statements like this, and then provide no proof to back the claim up.

HiTech
« Last Edit: November 27, 2006, 04:34:42 PM by hitech »

Offline weazely

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2006, 05:03:33 PM »
WOOT WOOT HiTech that was words of smartness:p :aok
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Offline Nomak

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2006, 07:14:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
no need at all almighty one

#1- I never pointed any single individual out, or pointed a finger directly at anyone in this post

#2- I guess the shoe must of fit, huh Dave?  you spoke up 1st

#3- Nomak, your "EGO" really does have an ugly side at times, is a shame really


I didnt think that you were pointing me out in particular.  I just felt that your post defending him overlooked the fact that his post was in left field.

Are my points incorrect TC?  Can you point out where I am in error in my judgement on the original post?  

If you honestly feel that I am out of line here than I will appoligize to you and him.  I honestly dont feel that I am out of line here.

Not sure where the "Ego" thing fits in.  I stated my opinions based on the statements made by Malta.  Judging on the other responses to the thread I am not alone in my assesment.

Dave

Offline Oleg

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Re: Re: Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2006, 01:44:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by stantond
I still hold with my original statement that one cannon round can take off a wing.  It takes a plan form or front quarter shot for one cannon round to remove the wing. From the rear, two or three are needed.  As stated above, I am always open to someone showing me how what I am seeing is not true.


If hitech's words is not enough for you, fly one cannon planes a bit and dont use MGs. You will realize your mistakes quickly.
"If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain."
Maya Angelou

Offline stantond

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2006, 07:14:53 AM »
Oh,

Well, I realized this morning that the Hurricane 2C has four cannons instead of two.  I suppose most people who fly it much know that.  I saw the single barrel on either side of the wing and didn't see the other gun until I was watching more films.  I'ts clearly shown in the hangar as well.  Whoops.

Regarding planes in the films, I don't believe any damage was done to the planes since I engaged them alone, flack wasn't there, and I had not fired any round into them.  However, I now think two cannon rounds were certainly put into the spitfire and the Mossie took four, two to the wing and two in the fuselage.  A canopy shot exploded the Mossie.

Again, this is something I noticed while 'popping' off wings and was compelled to point it out.  I kind of expected a response of "yea, a couple of cannon rounds will take out any wing".  Instead, the response was something entirely different.  I wish 50 caliber rounds were 1/3 as effective, but they don't seem to be in my experience and I can live with that.

Since this thread was flawed from the onset, as pointed out, I will stop  posting any more films.  I intend to investigate this further, but I'll use a single cannon plane and have more film before I make any more subject statements.  My apologies, and in the famous words of Emilly Latilla, "Nevermind".


Regards,

Malta

p.s.  Can someone explain how can you tell the F4U in the film took 15 hits?  That might just stop all these types of posts.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 07:33:38 AM by stantond »

Offline B@tfinkV

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2006, 08:51:01 AM »
malta,
 you can slow down the film viewer to 0.1% speed, this will almost show frame by frame. i think it shows 1 frame out of every 4 frames from the game or something. anyhow, by slowing it down you can much more clearly see the hit sprites that did record.



a very quick a simple way of testing your theory would be to go offline, fly a 109F with the single nose cannon, and see how many rounds it takes to shoot down the offline drones.


20mm are after all 'high explosive' rounds.   i will hazard that it will take you between 2 and 10 hits to down a plane.

hit 2 perfectly in the same area, wing comes off.

hit 10 all over aircraft, its going to fly away with minor damage most likely.


Another very important factor is range.

fire 10 cannon rounds into someones wing from 800yrds, you'll be lucky to get a kill.

fire 2 cannon rounds into that same wing from 50yrds, the wing will almost always come off.



plus to this the hispano cannons (spit, Chog, hurricane, mossy, etc) are the most powerfull in the game as far as 20mm  goes.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 08:54:58 AM by B@tfinkV »
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline BugsBunny

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2006, 09:27:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser

why is it that most people jump to freaking conclusions thinking someone is trying to find an excuse because he might of got beat?


:D very good question.  So why do you and the rest of the trainers do it to everyone else? :O

Offline stantond

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2006, 10:20:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
malta,
 you can slow down the film viewer to 0.1% speed, this will almost show frame by frame. i think it shows 1 frame out of every 4 frames from the game or something. anyhow, by slowing it down you can much more clearly see the hit sprites that did record.



a very quick a simple way of testing your theory would be to go offline, fly a 109F with the single nose cannon, and see how many rounds it takes to shoot down the offline drones.

clip...


I'll try messing with the film viewer again at minimum speed.  Regarding offline shooting, I have tried that.  Offline arena gun damage settings are different than online settings.  

I can 'make' my theory come true by increasing the offline arena guns lethality, but then any films made there are even more suspect.  However, giving all the arena settings so they can be reproduced is something to think about.  Flying online and going for the one 20mm cannon wing shed is more fun too.


Regards,

Malta

Offline hitech

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2006, 11:36:29 AM »
I can all read see how this one will turn out.

2 Possibilities.

Possibility 1.

Stantond Tries and tries but never does get a 1 bullet wing off with 20 mm. Then Does come back and say he was wrong. But later say 3 - 6 months some one else will make the same claim do to his original claim and AH normal (myth) prorogation.

Possibility 2.
He gets a film of a wing coming off with 1 hit. I once again evaluate film, and then tell him, the plane was already damaged. and once again the myth is propagated.

At this point I'm not even sure what you are trying to prove stantond.

If you whole point is saying that 20 mm are to lethal, then I would just say we disagree with you.  

HiTech

Offline FrodeMk3

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2006, 11:52:11 AM »
If 20mm's weren't lethal, who'd want 'em on their plane? :rofl

Offline Schatzi

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2006, 11:59:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by stantond
Can someone explain how can you tell the F4U in the film took 15 hits?  That might just stop all these types of posts.



As has been stated before in this thread, number of pings, and hit sprites (even in the film viewer) arent always corresponding with the number of actual hits taken.

Hitech is the ONLY person to be able to make such claims, as he can analyze the raw data from the film. Id assume that he extracted the number of hits "recorded" - not counted the visible hit sprites.
21 is only half the truth.

Offline hitech

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2006, 12:14:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Schatzi
As has been stated before in this thread, number of pings, and hit sprites


Hit sounds are played at 1/10 sec intervals. It is easily possible for you to take more hits and die before all the hit sounds are played.

How I look at the hits in the films is to track the hits in a debug session and look at the actual information that you sent to the server or that the server sent to you.

HiTech

Offline mussie

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Single 20mm cannon round takes off wing
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2006, 12:33:39 PM »
Ya know HT... And I am sure you have already thought of this.... but a post flight log might be helpful....

I pulled this from one of my old whish list threads (see below)

if it showed hits to the target (nothing more than the fact that a round has hit) it might help dispell this myth.....

Just a thought......

Quote
Originally posted by mussie
Hey Skuzzy HT and Pyro

I had my best ever night last night, bagged more than 20 kills in about four hours, for most of you 20 is nothing but when you consider that I only got 28 last tour its a hell of a lot for me

Now what I am getting to is that I would like to be able to view a log of what happened, the film viewer was running most of the night but it takes forever to go through it. so I was wondering if it would be possable to create a log file for AH, I was hoping for something like the below:

1- When you start AH it creates a text file named:  "AHlog_HH-mm_DD-MM-YY.txt"   IE: AHlog_06-00_17-08-05.txt

2- It would record
- Start time of AH
- Which Arena you selected, the current players and ping
- When you change fields
- When you take off
- Who you shot down (system messages that are about you)
- Damage you took (not likely I know but would be cool)
- when you landed (.ef) ditched died ect) again a system message)
- Perk changes

3- When you close AH it would put the summary at the end (see below)

I konw you guys and the rest of the team have other things on but this would be cool if you ever had the time

Later Guys

++++++++ EXAMPLE BELOW ++++++++

The contense would look like:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AHlog_06-00_17-08-05.txt  
AH Started at  06:00 am 17th of August 2005
06:01 - Entered Online Arena Selection
06:01 - Selected Main Arena, 250/750 Ping 357
06:02 - Selected A13
06:03 - Left A13 in FM2
06:15 - You shot down: mussie_F4U-1C
06:21 - Your FM2 has taken damage from mussie:Rudder_Gun4_MainFuel
06:25 - Successfully landed 1 kill at A13
06:25 - Gained .7 Fighter Perks
06:26 - Selected A17
06:27 - Quit to main menu
06:27 - Quit AHII
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Session Summary:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Kills
06:15 - You shot down: mussie_F4U-1C
End Kills
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Assists
You have no assists  
End Assists
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Deaths
You have no Deaths
End Deaths
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Damage
06:21 - Your FM2 have taken damage from mussie :Rudder_Gun4_MainFuel
End Damage
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Session Stats
Fighter  K:1 A:0 Ob:0 S:1 L:0 B:0 Di:0 Cp:0 D:0 Dis:0 Ti:00:21
Attack K:0 A:0 Ob:0 S:0 L:0 B:0 Di:0 Cp:0 D:0 Dis:0 Ti:00:21
Bomber K:0 A:0 Ob:0 S:0 L:0 B:0 Di:0 Cp:0 D:0 Dis:0 Ti:00:21
Boat K:0 A:0 Ob:0 S:0 L:0 B:0 Di:0 Cp:0 D:0 Dis:0 Ti:00:21
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
K=kills
A=assists
Ob=objects
S=Sorties
L=Landed
B=Bailed
Di=Ditched
Cp=Captured
D=Deaths
Dis=Discoed
Ti=Time