Does this news from the Middle East surprise anyone here?

[dmf]

I say we pull out of there, everything all military get out of that entire region, then we sit back and watch them kill each other

[babek-]

Originally posted by Eagler
babek
since you are one of them ... gotta ask ... why are the people in that region so arse backwards that they'd rather kill each other instead of living peacefully with one another? Are that that ignorant as to not be able to stop and see the absurity of it all?

Arse backwards to kill each other... thats indeed a good question.

Maybe you get the answer by asking members of the so calles modern and civilized nations?

Why they fought bitter wars for centuries - even world wars - butchering millions of innocent people? Why they became so fanatic that 100 thousands young men wanted to join armies to becomepart of wars like in WW 1 and WW2 ?
Were they so ignorant to see the absurdity of it all?

Ok - you can say: "These were small mistakes done before WW2 - but now the modern and civilized nations have made an evolutional step. Now they are peaceful and modern and good peace loving people. But the stupid backwards primitive uncivilized nations in the MiddleEast region are so strange - so tell me why?"


But you will find in every of these civilized western nations examples that they still had a strange behavior after WW2.

In the USA - for example - people were defined officially as something subhuman just because they had black skins. But also here there has been and evolutional step in the minds of the people. It took its time but today black and white people are equal. Officially.

Or N-Ireland, where the so peace loving christians were doing all these strange and arse backward things and so ignorant to see the absurdity.
I remmber seeing pictures in TV where a christian mob was throwing stones on christian children on their way to their school with a police escort, just because the children were katholics and their school in a protestant area (or was it otherwise?). Absurd - indeed.

Maybe the answer of your question is: Because they are humans - like you and me.

Also the media and propagada shows the people what the regimes want to see.

One funny thing for example:

In western media the iranian president is shown as a religious fanatic who thinks that he receives messages from god and is ready to start wars and make crimes because of his stupid fanatism.

And in iranian media exactly the same picture is shown when the propaganda is showing President Bush.

Funny - and interesting.

The problem is, that most US people dont know Iran and the iranians like it really is - and otherwise.

And so - there are walls and stereotypes in the minds of the people and they start to act very strange from the point of view of the other side.

The easy way would be to say:
Look at the primitive and uncivilized Iran/USA. How irrational and absurd they act. Really barbaric these iranians/americans.

The much more difficult part would be to try to understand the developments which led to the situations we have today.

[Viking]

Originally posted by lazs2
ya know viking...

If it would shut up the guys from countries that are and have been doing.....  nothing...

I would certainly be willing to have a national vote in Iraq.... one question only..

"Do you want the Americans to leave at this time?"

lazs

I don't think you need a vote to figure out the answer to that question. They never wanted you there in the first place.

[Viking]

Originally posted by culero
Count me among the many who would reply "As you wish, your opinion of us doesn't matter to me".

culero

Noted.

[Yeager]

Difference between civilized peoples and uncivilized peoples is that the civilized peoples shoot each other in the head for quick and relatively pain free deaths were as uncivilized peoples tie your hands behind your back and slice off your head slow like so you can experience death like an animal being slaughtered.

Thats the difference.

[Eagler]

thanks babek for the response
but the violence to someone because of skin color in the states on a grand scale has been over for decades. and the IRA studipidy has ceased. But the insanity seems to be growing not decreasing in the ME these days when the majority of the rest of the planet just wants to get along, make it through another day/week/month/year.
Yes I see the head of Iran as a nutjob, what else would you call someone, the leader of a country, calling for the destruction of Israel and stating the holocast did not happen?
Just seems in many ways the ME is fighting to stay in ignorance instead of moving ahead with the rest of us Earthings.

[Mark Luper]

I was born a US citizen, in Texas, but grew up in another country. I have often wondered about issues such as what babek has mentioned. It never ceases to amaze me at what my fellow compatriots often say in regard to other countries and the way they do things. They say it's "strange".

Actually it is "different" not necessarily strange. One cannot hope to understand what a percieved problem is unless one can put oneself in another's shoes and see things from thier perspective.

I support the invasion of Iraq. I support our troops. I don't know if what we, as a country, are trying to achieve post invasion is actually the right thing for the region and the people who live in it.
 
I don't know the answer either.
 

[Viking]

Originally posted by Yeager
Difference between civilized peoples and uncivilized peoples is that the civilized peoples shoot each other in the head for quick and relatively pain free deaths were as uncivilized peoples tie your hands behind your back and slice off your head slow like so you can experience death like an animal being slaughtered.

Thats the difference.

Are you saying that Americans are an uncivilized people just because a few US soldiers cut the heads off Vietnamese POW's?

[dmf]

Originally posted by Mark Luper
I was born a US citizen, in Texas, but grew up in another country. I have often wondered about issues such as what babek has mentioned. It never ceases to amaze me at what my fellow compatriots often say in regard to other countries and the way they do things. They say it's "strange".

Actually it is "different" not necessarily strange. One cannot hope to understand what a percieved problem is unless one can put oneself in another's shoes and see things from thier perspective.

I support the invasion of Iraq. I support our troops. I don't know if what we, as a country, are trying to achieve post invasion is actually the right thing for the region and the people who live in it.
 
I don't know the answer either.
 

Born here in Va, lived here in Va, I went to Jacksonville Florida once with my ex, but other than that the farthest I've ever traveled is Moyock NC

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by red26
Because like I said there all in this together, Of course you mess with one of them you mess with the whole giant littler box over there. You cant trust any of them there all the same. They all call us Ifendels. And them owning all of our stores dosent matter if there quicky marts or not it's a take over with out ever casting a bullet.

you do know that India is a predominantly Hindu country, correct?  You also do realize that India has the the same problem as we do with Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, correct?  You have heard of the troubles in Kashmir, correct?  So again, please explain how India is "part of them" and a threat to the security of our country?   I wonder if you think Bangladash is a threat too...lmao!

Time to get that blissful look off your face and do some reading about India and the troubles in that region.


ack-ack

[Hazzer]

Babek is spot on. intelligent life on these boards.Pull your troops out and your Iraqi democracy will collapse like wet card board,but keep them there and the local popluation will become ever more hostile towards the us and her allies.If and when you do leave their won't be a civil war as such but a wholesale massacre of the sunni minority by the shia  majority,a bloodbath.This is a bigger disaster for the usa than vietnam since the middle east is of  more strategic importance.Like I have said here before The usa can never leave Iraq and save face,your in a lose lose situation.  You will have to face the fact that you are in possesion of the worst President the USA has ever had,don't believe me?look this post up in five years time and tell me I'm wrong.

The rammifacations of mr bush's little adventure will endure through the rest of this century,just like after ww1 when the British & other colonial powers Let the Arabs down by carving up the middle east and not giving them the Arab state they desired.

 When the job is done?What planet is that man on!!!

[Debonair]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
you do know that India is a predominantly Hindu country, correct?  You also do realize that India has the the same problem as we do with Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, correct?  You have heard of the troubles in Kashmir, correct?  So again, please explain how India is "part of them" and a threat to the security of our country?   I wonder if you think Bangladash is a threat too...lmao!

Time to get that blissful look off your face and do some reading about India and the troubles in that region.


ack-ack

bangladesh is a threat:furious i heard they are working on a way to weaponize drowning:O

[john9001]

babek, why are you in germany and not in iran?

[lazs2]

viking... nice evasive moves...

first of all who is "they" that didn't want us there in the first place?   Was there some kind of secret ballot I missed?   If you were under the sadmans rule would you have been waving American and Brit flags and made it known you welcomed an invasion?

They had only one vote that I seen and that was after we (not you) gave them the ability to do so.

Now... I ask you... would it make you happy if there were a vote on us staying or not?

My guess is that the people would overwhelmingly want us to stay for some time yet and want us to leave once they got the government working.

lazs

[Viking]

Originally posted by lazs2
first of all who is "they" that didn't want us there in the first place?   Was there some kind of secret ballot I missed?   If you were under the sadmans rule would you have been waving American and Brit flags and made it known you welcomed an invasion?

The fact that the vast majority of Iraqis didn't and still don't wave American or British flags after you had ousted Saddam tells me all I need to know.

Originally posted by lazs2
They had only one vote that I seen and that was after we (not you) gave them the ability to do so.

Iraq held regular national elections, just like every *cough* democracy.

Originally posted by lazs2
Now... I ask you... would it make you happy if there were a vote on us staying or not?

Sure, if it makes you happy? Don't matter to me one way or the other.

Originally posted by lazs2
My guess is that the people would overwhelmingly want us to stay for some time yet and want us to leave once they got the government working.

My guess is that you're wrong.

The Shi'ites represent the majority of the "Iraqi people", and they want you gone so that they can take control of the country and either throw out the Sunnis, or oppress them. The New Iraqi prime minister has already been in talks with Iran for their support to expedite your "departure". Iraq will become an Iranian satellite nation, or perhaps even join Iran.

Every moderate Arab state's worst nightmare is coming true, and you made it happen. WTG!