Changes to come.

[Wolf14]

Welp I said awhile back I wasnt happy with the changes. Still not.

I will say this though. Awhile back when we all experienced the great bang that was called the arena split, alot folks sat back wondering and scratching their heads as to why we werent informed before hand and alot of folks including myself thought that was wrong.

I dont remember the exact words, but HT said something to the effect that previous experiance had taught him about forum meltdowns and crucifictions and stuff. I kinda see where he was comming from now. Not sayin I have walked in his shoes, but gettin a view of what he has seen many times before.

Side "A" says: Yay! changes and changes are good and yall take your medicine and like it.

Side "B" says: This is more or less all a big crock of poopy.

I still favor the opinion of side "B" that it is all a big crock of poopy, but through all the accusations, finger pointing, grumbles and growls, I have to gove credit where credit is due.

 The guy making the calls had the respect, at least thats what I like to call it, to pony up and say more or less "Hey folks, you aint gonna like what I'm bout to do, but its gonna happen. We got us some changes in store and we gots us a big storm a commin. I knows it. I'za smelt it before. Some of you folks are gonna ride it out fine. Some of ya's are gonna get thrown around and eventualy find a safe harbor. Others are gonna just out right sink. I'll pray fer ya."

Like the first time around with the arena split he didnt tell us, this time he did. I do wish we had more laymans insight to the the models they look at in determining what they see in the numbers and what those things mean. I think at times its easier to ask a rock to give you a gallon of water in the desert than get any kind of professional explanation on why a decision to implement something was made. Sometimes an answer can be given with out divulging crutial numerical stats or speaking to someone in the "Cause I can tone of voice."

So with all that rambling being said, Thanks for letting us know and taking what time you do to read all that is being posted.

Even if the responses arent to our liking at least its nice to know there are developers who dont take their playerbase for granted and outright ignore them.

[Arlo]

Fastest growin' thread ... evar. Are we there yet (China)?

[Mayhem]

I can live with more then one arena, I can live with changes to the Capture system. I even learned to live with the perk system and the biased perking of the chog and the old  whacked ENY side balancing system.
 
 However this new system is annoying. I log in and fly in late war blue POP/CAP is something like 147/170. A few members of my squad are there. I start having performance issues due to a back ground service. So I log out and restart my system. I come back and the pop limit is 162/120. I go fly in Late War orange however no one I know is there, so I give up and log off.

 So it’s possible to log into AH ... Have 3/4 of the squad doing a squad night in Late War Main Blue and not be able to join my squad due to either the arena cap or the country cap. To make matters worse we could all log in together 3/4 get in the arena while the last 1/4 get the door slammed in their face. If a squad mate has to leave he may not be able to come back infact my bet is on they wount be able to get back in.

 To really screw us up the population caps in the arenas fluctuates constantly. So you never really know what the best Late war arena is to get into. To add insult to injury, even if you do get in does not mean you will be able to fly with the new whacked side balancing scheme.

Why not just fix the cap for each arena? Then also Cap the country population to 1/3 the arena pop cap? Its not as effective as the current system but its also not as forceful or intrusive. To be blunt the current system wasn’t all that effective tonight, specially since 2 sides seem to have ganged up on the third. And there really is no fix for the masses of 2 countries hitting the third.

I’m not really sure why we went Early Mid and Late war. Obviously there isn’t much interest in early and mid war, there almost used about as little as the Axis vs. Allied arenas. Given enough time for the novelty to wear off and they will probably end up just like the AvA arena … rarely used. Personally wouldn’t a Theater based arena system work better. Like an E.T.O. P.T.O. maybe even East and west E.T.O.s and a North Africa Theater of Operations. This would give Historical and Theater base squads some where to move to. For example the VF-17 Jolly Rogers would probably want to move to the PTO. There are a lot of Pro USN USMC IJN IJA squadrons that would move to the a Pacific arena as there are also a lot of Luftwaffe US UK and USSR based squadrons that would move to a European arena. I know it’s a little air warriorish but it’s a good kinda air warriorishness unlike filled up arenas and waiting to get into an arena that remind me of the bad parts of air warrior.

Another problem with the current system is Squadron caps. My squadron the damned is actually 3 squads in AH2 because we have so many members. We divided the squads by how much we fly. The guys like whels who practically live in AH2 are in one squad while people like me who hardly fly are in the 3rd squad. This makes finding and communicating with squad mates specially those in a locked arena a bit hard. Removing the squad Cap would help us a lot with this new system. Having an easier and more effective means to talk so some one in an arena from the lobby would be a plus to. A really nice gift would be to have the system tell you when a squad mate logs into AH2.

Having the side populations and possibly caps if ever implemented shown on the clip board list of arena’s would really help. Something like.


Arena                  | Total Pop/Max |  Bish  |  Knit  |  Rook  | Ping |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Early War Main Arena   |  10/150       |  2/50  |  1/50   |  7/50  |  47  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mid   War Main Arena    |  15/150       |  4/50  |  4/50   |  7/50  |  47  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Late War Main Arena A  |  158/300     | 51/100 |  46/100 | 61/100 |  47  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Late War Main Arena B  |  107/300     | 40/100 |  33/100 | 34/100 |  47  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETO Main Arena             |  158/225     |  51/75 |  46/75  | 61/75  |  47  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTO Main Arena             |  107/225     | 33/75  |  34/75  | 40/75  |  47  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Axis Vs. Allies Arena       |   3/150       |  2/50  |  1/75   |  0/0   |  47  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dueling Arena                |   10/75       |  2/25  |  2/25   |  6/25  |  47  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Training Arena               |  10/75        |  2/25  |  1/25   |  7/25  |  47  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special Events Arena     |  0/600        |  0/200 |  0/200  |  0/200 |  47  |

AH2 only has a few competitors. WarBirds, Fighter Ace, Targetware, and WWIIOL.

Most of these games are hurting not because AH2 is so good but because they are just that bad.

Warbirds is dated No one ever their wants to update or push the game engine to catch up with the times and it’s mismanaged. However a few people have left AH as of late to go to Warbirds … probably Old Warbirds players.

Fighter Ace is just a Microsoft Mass multiplayer CFS that is also dated and mismanaged and has a problem with reality. Again it’s behind the times. A few old Air Warrior RR squads went there and were talking about moving here but I think they decided against this.

WWIIOL is more for the ground pounder game it also has system issues. The flight side of it is lacking. Sort of like a MMP version of BF1942

Targetware is still in beta has very limited plane sets. While it’s promising and Free there are just to many restrictions to game play and its interface is very complex.

The biggest competitor HTC ever had didn’t get blown out of the water ….. It got scuttled by EA.

Right now I do not get a lot of time to play. I prefer to fly with my squad mates. Saying the new system doesn’t brake up or hurt the squadrons means you haven’t been paying attention to the boards. Squads are having a real hard time flying together. Then you got squad mates that have left or are leaving because of the new system with even more talking about leaving. Alot of us Pay are suspscription fees even when we go 2 or 3 months at a time without playing just so when we do actually get to play we can be with our squadmated and friends. With out a good group of guys and gals to fly with there is no reason in paying to play when I can just load up Pacific fighters and play solo, least the AI wount bad mouth me on ch 200 or scream profinitys threw my speakers on an unmutable local VOX chan becuase I didn't give them a six call.

As a customer I’m frustrated with the new system specifically the fluctuating arena caps that can and often do change several times a day.

I have already lost one old squad in AH, the 33rd Strike Group. I really don’t want to loose the Damned. I would prefer to move to another game of my squads chosing, even an inferior and/or more expensive game.

[Hades55]

Originally posted by hitech
Kev you have just proved my point. When we start AH
The flowing online flight sims all had a lot of players.

AirWarior
Fighter Ace
Warbirds

The direct competitors today are.

Fighter Ace
Warbirds
Target Ware


You saying that they are not real competitors , because you do not like them, is my point about beating the competition. But you just want to say they are not real competition, because we are better, and that is my point, the way we got to be better is doing exactly like we have always done. Continually making changes when we think the changes are for the better. Even at the expense of a period of costumer base complaints.HiTech

yea, but you forget that you won that battle with, quess what as basic weapon ?

  Main Arena

[LYNX]

by Stiletto

If you want objectivity, go to the long-time squad leaders and ask them what would make their squads happy. We are the ones who find out before you do when people are so frustrated and unhappy they are about to cancel their subscriptions, and we are the ones who try our best to talk them out of it.

What a cracking good point to make.  Yep, Co's are usually first to know and get the real honest reasons.

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by Dantoo
Why do you persist in this?

People have voted with their feet.  Players will always do only that which they enjoy doing, no matter what obstacles you throw in their way.  What each individual seeks from the game will not change.  The game changes will not change the goals of the individual and players will always look to find the shortest path to achieve their personal goals.

Your changes have not enhanced enjoyment across the board by any stretch.  You are trying to force people to do things that they will not.  This alienates and frustrates your customers.  It is more profitable to retain a customer than to spend the money to gain a new one.

Leave it be.  Stop getting these stupid ideas for "necessary changes" from the BBS.  Spend time in the arenas if you want to see what people like and dislike.

If you had simply spent the time developing more and better maps and new interesting planes/gvs that you have on these ridiculous innovations you would be racing ahead.

Word.

Rather than log on and play (like it was), now I have to jump through a bunch of hoops; enter some lobby to find my squad, if found... wait in que for the same stale map, or go somewhere I dont feel like going... like a team with screen names I could give a rats sphincter about. Its my $$, that's how I like it, end of story.  

Making a non stop 24/7 war campaign "fair" is lame anyway..
 
If a team is out numbered, suck it up and deal with it; organize, fight a smarter campaign, combat interdiction... maybe the root of the problem is a lack of in game tools that makes simple / easy organization to contradict such things? an out numbered force can easily hold their own, ask Sun Tzu or read about the battle of Gargamel.

Perhaps its time to think about scrapping the current map system if favor of something that's easier to create for and offers more / completely different challenge options. Constant tweaking with, uh, us the player, is just getting annoying, esp to those of us who like it simple; log on, game on team / squad of choice, log off.

[woozel]

I have been paying my $15.00 P/MO since the AH1 days. I have never complained about anything, but this latest change is over the top. I can't fly unless I go to an unpopulated arena, or change countries or wait in the tower. Come on. I have sucked up all the changes and experiments, but this is going too far.
People are making fun of those who are loyal to their country, or "cartoon chess peices" as someone put it.
I see nothing wrong with being loyal to your country, game or not.
The ENY change was bad enough, but this is by far the worst. Now it is impossible to fly with my squad.
What is the purpose of this latest change?
What was wrong with things before multiple arenas, restrictive ENY, and this latest and most severe change?
Are these changes just made on a whim? I ask this because I see no complaints in the forums that these changes address.
We pay our money, why can'y we fly what we want, when we want, and where we want?

[aztec]

Originally posted by Hades55
yea, but you forget that you won that battle with, quess what as basic weapon ?

  Main Arena

Dead on.

[DaPup]

Originally posted by x0847Marine
Making a non stop 24/7 war campaign "fair" is lame anyway..
 

This isn't really a "war" though, it's just a game. That seems to be the biggest difference among many people on here. I think HTC should just get rid of the country designations so no one will have that "loyalty" issue. The numbers will never be exactly equal but when they get as far out of whack as they have been then something needs to be done.

You make it sound as though you would still have fun even if there were no players at all to oppose your side. I know that I wouldn't enjoy that scenario at all.

[Edbert]

Originally posted by Hades55
yea, but you forget that you won that battle with, quess what as basic weapon ?

  Main Arena

I beg to differ, the reason AH beats them all is the combination of it's vastly superior:

• flight model
• gunnery model
• damage model
• collision model (hehehe)
• graphics engine (with one exception there)

All of these things can be subjective of course, but I have played/tested/tried them all. The only one that comes close on those items is not even in the list that Dale mentioned. I know many of you guys, particularly the flood that came here when it finally broke down, are VERY emotionally tied to AW...but for anyone who does not have the rose-colored glasses of their first puppy-love on...AW BLEW BEETS! It sucked in 1993 (BADLY) as well as 1995 when I last tried it and although it may have got a little better over the next few years the only online CFS out there it beat was Fighter Ace which was for kidddies. WarBirds 1.0 was the first one that I deemed worth paying for and after a few years of fun it was destroyed by WildBill and IEN who bought it from Dale/Doug, which freed them up to bring us AH (just to show what a freaking idiot Bill was...he did not have a non-compete in the contract...lmfao).

Warbirds is dead, only reason some still play it is because they're stupid enough to try and play games on a Mac.

AW, the flaming POS finally sank, long overdue IMO, it was behind the times crap since 1990.

Fighter Ace, total easy mode planes with little relation to real life modeling or even laws of physics, nothing more than air-quake for 8 year olds, think "Crimson Skies" with WWII graphics.

TargetWare, interesting concept, think of it as the Linux of CFSes...free, weird, clumsy, overly-complicated, not much fun for the mainstream.

IL2, beautiful graphics, questionable flight modeling, no capacity for MMOL which pretty much takes it out of the DIRECT competition role. Of course there's a couple of hundred folks flying in rooms of 16/32/64 (64+ gets buggy/laggy though).
------------
Well now that I've pi$$ed off some vocal subgroups (Mac-freaks/Linux-geeks/AW-zombies) by stating the obvious, I'm putting on the asbestos undies...flame away!

[Overlag]

Originally posted by SlapShot
if only we put so much of our whining efforts into fighting instead.

Smartest thing you said in the whole post ... the rest was 1/2 speculation on your part and the other 1/2 total bullcrap.

it doesnt effect me so its not true comes to mind.

[Flayed1]

So far the only real problem I've seem with the side balancer is when we were just about to reset Rooks and everyone started jumping from rooks to bish...

  At one point there were 40 (cough) Bish on and only 20 were actually up and fighing while people that wanted to actually FLY got stuck waiting.

  I think the longest I've been stuck in line for so far is maybe 5 minuits and I don't even change countries.

[HomeBoy]

It's been a few pages ago when I tried to ask this question.  I want to try this again because I really think it needs to be answered.  Clearly there are two factions at odds here:  the "war game" crowd and the "gamer"/"flight sim"/"furballer" bunch..  It's very much an oil and water thing to me.  I just don't see how the two groups can mix in any significant way.   I can read each one of these posts and flag them as "W" (war gamer) or "G" (gamer) and therefore predict their position on these issues much like I can with politics in that if you tell me you are a liberal then I pretty much know where you stand on most issues or conservative, same thing (please, I'm not trying to equate the "W"s and "G"s to politics, it's just an example of profiling).

Ok, here is the question:

Why can we not have an arena for the "G" (gamers) and an arena for the "W" (war gamers)?  

The "G" arena could just be one country and no way to blow stuff up or whatever, or how ever they want it set it up so that they can furball themselves silly.  The "W" arena can be structured similar to the original MA for war combat games.  That way both factions can have things there own way.   Someone posted that the "W"s should just ignore the insults and complaints of the "G"s when their airfields are attacked, etc.  That just doesn't get it for me.  I don't want to do that.  Trust me, I, for one, want to be a good citizen here and get along.  If the "G"s get all bent out of shape by hordes, HOs, etc. then you would think they'd be thrilled to have an arena all to themselves where they could implement structure to keep that from happening.  From the posts, it is clear the numbers are there.  

Duh!  Am I just too simple in my thinking here?

[Mayhem]

Originally posted by Flayed1
So far the only real problem I've seem with the side balancer is when we were just about to reset Rooks and everyone started jumping from rooks to bish...

  At one point there were 40 (cough) Bish on and only 20 were actually up and fighing while people that wanted to actually FLY got stuck waiting.

  I think the longest I've been stuck in line for so far is maybe 5 minuits and I don't even change countries.

Thats another problem. people that goto work, Go shoping, Go fishing, Go to spend quality time with thier wifes/hunsbands/sheep but stay logged in and idle in AH forever. AKA squatters, while this was never an issue before I bet it becomes one now. Gunna be a pain to log in and fly when everone that is on is afraid to leave becuase the most likely will not be able to get back in let alone Fly. Guess HT is probably going to have to come up with a fix like getting kicked if your idle to long. Unfortunately people will just up in a Field gun or a GV at a far away lonely base to get around it. Ofcorse people will whine and HT will have to fix it again by modifing the anti-squatters routine to also kick people that arean't moving and/or shooting for long periods of time.

My head hurts I need an Asprin

I honestly beleive the new system is way to forcefull, and it really hurts the squadrons. Their has to be a good inbetween compramise, I hope.

[indy007]

Simple fix for that. 5 minute idle-kick.

Same problem exists in World of Warcraft pvp arenas. Some people just hop in and come back and wiggle their mouse every few minutes. No actual playing, just standing there earning points. The afk-kick on it is fairly ruthless & fast though.

Our solution was to fold up business cards and jam them into our movement keys when its time for a break.