I've lost faith

[BlauK]

I really wonder what would have happened if in the original arena split, they would have taken a small step of splitting it into 2 arenas... LW and EW+MW.
I never understood the split into 4 arenas.

I would also rather fly most often at MW, but the decent numbers are a priority in a multiplayer sim.

[B@tfinkV]

flying the La7 into a pack of 5 enemy is awesome fun.



you haters just wouldnt understand.

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Yeager
question for anyone who plays this game:

how many nights spent with a beautiful woman have you passed up so you could stay up late and play this silly computer game?

I play this silly computer game because I am ugly and beautiful women always laugh at me

[shegotya]

Originally posted by Krusty
, because it removs any plane that would be a threat to their simple yank-n-bank skills. All they wanna do is dogpile the tail-end-charlie in a long line of distracted folks, turn as tight as they can, die (maybe get a kill in the process) and reup, repeat ad nauseum.  

That is not how your SUPPOSE to do it ... GREAT!! I just perfected the yank-n-bank too!!


SGY*

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Krusty
An arena full of Hurricanes, SpitVs, and zeros is just that, and gets really old after the 1,000th revolution for no purpose.

Could be, could be.  When to split the arenas was a tough call.  At present there just aren't enough early war rides to mirror the multitude of choices available in late war, so perhaps the change was made too soon.  OTOH, now there's incentive to create more planes in the early periods.  P-39s, I-16s, Oscars....there have been plenty of threads over the years discussing all the different planes that would fit here, which would be simply a waste of time in late war.

For the occasional visitor (me), it's been sort of sad to see the trend in EW.  At first you could find people flying nearly all of the planes (OK, maybe not the P-40B).  Then the choices got trimmed down to Zekes, 109Fs, Wildcats, Hurri IIs and Spit 5s.  The last time I was in there (maybe a week ago?) it was all Spit 5s, supporting Kweassa's original point that, left to their own, people will gravitate to the easiest rides.

As for the notion that getting kills in early war planes is easier than getting kills in late war planes....I disagree (with a chuckle).  It isn't the speed of the late war planes that makes them killers, it's the enormous racks of big guns they carry.  Apart from Hizooka-equipped or perked EW planes (you know what they are), there are very few snap-shot kills to be had in the early war period.

- oldman

[B@tfinkV]

great post oldman S! i really miss the old days of combat theatre and rarely stay awake for the small goldmine of fights in the wee hours of AvA.

there was just something magical about being the allies vs storch and company in those days, and i will be forever thanfull to JG54 for the fun we had just as much as those i flew alongside. flying jamusta's wing and being beaten up by you and duke, and many others, those days were almost AH1-like in thier fun levels.

personaly on your comments krusty i see your points, but i would adore an arena made of just spits, hurris and zekes.  spitfire V all the way.

[BugsBunny]

Originally posted by Oldman731

For the occasional visitor (me), it's been sort of sad to see the trend in EW.  At first you could find people flying nearly all of the planes (OK, maybe not the P-40B).  Then the choices got trimmed down to Zekes, 109Fs, Wildcats, Hurri IIs and Spit 5s.  The last time I was in there (maybe a week ago?) it was all Spit 5s, supporting Kweassa's original point that, left to their own, people will gravitate to the easiest rides.

That should have been the answer on the other thread O

[Quah!]

I would like to see the EW with smaller maps, less distance between bases, and 100 troops to capture bases and no factories. I go there often to see if I can fight the 20-30 people listed as in the arena...I can't find them. Then I notice a factory blinking and go to intercept--the stratrunner augers. I see a town blinking at a base, go to check it out, GV base capturer runs away to another part of the map.

In short (and in general) mostly milkrunners gaming the game/map.

I would love to see some wicked Hurri I, Spit I, C202, 109E fights, but I'm afraid that is just beyond the capabilities and interest of most current players.

Spot on, institute the Base Taking change tested in Orange and these two arenas will flourish.

et me elaborate...hurri2, spit 1, spit5 are all better turners then the "uber" planes....in fact if you had to label a plane as a trainer (training wheels) then i would stick the label on the EW planes (limited flaps..already slow so instant turn radius)...the only true adv the "so called uber" planes have is their speed...and in a turnfight thats a liability....i personally "learned" the flight model in a spit5 when i first joined...left it due to the fact it couldnt catch anything and i DON'T like someone else dictating tempo of a fight (just like chess fellahs...control tempo and control the game)

soooo...who really wants the EW planes??? guys who lack skill and patience imho...they want the arcade of quick easy low fights that you can charge into gun blazing...barely need to use flaps...and noone can egress to safety....take altitude and e out of the picture and make the fight very one dimensional (like ww1 arena in awc).

No disrespect intended, but I have never seen a more ignorant assessment of combat flying or an example of smaller balls.  I have dictated most fights from down low as lemmings dove in and blew their E, then died or ran.  

take altitude and e out of the picture and make the fight very one dimensional

Yeah because you are in an early war bird, you no longer have Energy and can't use altitude.  Are you cheeseting me!

Hiding on your perch and cherrying with your advantages takes very little in the way of skill and is the real easy way out.  Hiding behind the big engine and your ability to run, wow mad skills LOL.

It takes far more patience to outmaneuver the safety dancers as they dive in from their perches and blow all their advantages.
 
Something tells me you never fight without the advantages and that my friend is the easy way out.  

Your from the camp of "control tempo and control the game", I'm from the camp of "Possess better fighting skills and control then enemy no matter what plane your in."  No more need to hide behind the type of plane anymore.  

I have to agree, I too have gotten cynical about this community and the heros flying in here these days.  They need all the numbers, all the advantages all the excuses and even with all the cards they still avoid the fights.  Then they come in here and whine/defend the need to milkrun, fly in hordes and not fight.  

I never imagined back in the day flying Aces of the Pacific against AI, when I longed for online air combat games that pitted me against another human, that there would be people that avoided a decent fight at all costs.  It is sad for sure.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
flying the La7 into a pack of 5 enemy is awesome fun.



you haters just wouldnt understand.

I understand.   It IS fun.   Try it with a Spit5.

[Kweassa]

flying the La7 into a pack of 5 enemy is awesome fun.

 ... upto the point when you discover all those 5 enemies now behind, are also La-7s.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by BugsBunny
That should have been the answer on the other thread O

Heh.  That was my point in the other thread.  The migration occurred because people sought the easy rides.

Where was it that they ended up?

- oldman

[BugsBunny]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh.  That was my point in the other thread.  The migration occurred because people sought the easy rides.

Where was it that they ended up?

- oldman

 hehe, I meant the part about being bored with just those planes foo

[bozon]

Originally posted by Kweassa
... upto the point when you discover all those 5 enemies now behind, are also La-7s.

or 4 La7s and while you knife fight all 4 of them, the 5th - a Hurri2C will come crawling and get you when you are out of air.

EW birds in LW basically feed of the scraps of others. Unless your opponent is willing to fight to the death or has no brains, you'll never catch an La7 with a hurricane (just an example, might as well be other planes). A hurricane will not catch a 109E/F in EW either, but the difference there is not that great.

However Kweassa is right. The majority is not interested in quality fights, or interesting planes. They either "fighters" who want the bestest plane and try get as many kills as they can, or "strat" players who'd use the easiest means to capture/pork a base - late war bombers and jabos.

Jabo in EW/MW? why up an SBD or D3A with a little bomb atached, when you can take a typhoon with 2k bombs or P51 with 2k+6 rockets and come diving in supersonic and also be a fighter once ord is released? why fly Ju88 with punny 0.3 mg for defense when you can fly B17/24 ack stars? when achievement is measured by scores and kills there is no reason.

By the posts in this thread, those of us that like the EW / MW are mostly plane-dedicated pilots (if you don't count the score padders that exploit an empty areana). Those that fly certain planes because they love them, or find it interesting or historical, they enjoy EW/MW. I think the differentiation here is not "furballers" vs. "tool shedders", but "simmers" vs. "gamers".

The "density instability" effect is very real. People do flock to where the others are. However, this is not random and they always end up flocking to LW. Note the disappearance of plane-dedicated and historical (by more than just name) squadrons. There used to be plenty of those. Only a few these days.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by bozon
Note the disappearance of plane-dedicated and historical (by more than just name) squadrons. There used to be plenty of those. Only a few these days.

And probably even less that fly the ride of their historical counterparts consistantly.  One of the reasons that when I see a high Jug, I tend to figure he's probably 56th

[FALCONWING]

um thanks to those who actually read my post with intent to understand instead of being defensive....

of course i was referring to the demise of the EW....

and those who fly the EW planes in LW are mostly "look at me" guys or folks who like to have a built in excuse..."ooh im l33t i killed a la7 who was dumb enuf to turn with me in my hurri1"

here is the hard truth quah and co....i was a champ furballer in AWC...i mastered the p38 and won dueling ladders with it.....it gets old without any other reason to play because the only satisfaction after a while is "being the best" (and most poeple just dont care)

we only had EW planes in general back in AWC if you werent there for those days....and ive got a secret for you....

come closer...

closer....



we called 190s uber because they could egress from the spits and 38s and they would fly higher and werent dumb enuf to turnfight us...we called them every name in the book!!!

so the secret is.......unless hitech only gives one plane in an arena..the faster non turning plane will always be called the uber plane.....

also the reason for EW demise was never more evident than in the post where some of the posters here were "just so pissed and outraged" that someone would sink a cv that had been placed against an enemy field to be used as a furball platform!!! how dare they!!!

who  knows maybe EW would have made it if guys were allowed to use the EW planes not just as furball machines but actually in the environment of a dynamic game.  i tried Ew and was told to leave by some of the dictators as this was their arena.  and while i was there different nights, i watched guys get yelled at for being over 5k and flying 190s etc.

so kweassa...i too have lost faith but its in the very opposite of the people you are pointing the finger at...its in the people in even this post who continue to try and dictate to others what their fun should be...and then are puzzled when grown men wont play their way if they whine enough.