Author Topic: People need to learn when THEY ram . (Read 2709 times)

Bronk · « **on:** December 30, 2006, 07:32:28 PM »

See Rule #5, #4

E25280 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2006, 08:13:05 PM »

I'll see if I can have a talk with poor Rifle. It looks like he has some collision-confusion. I will try to explain to him how the model works.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2006, 08:26:36 PM »

Personally I think the Ram model should be turned off.
Its too inconsistant

Or it should aat the very least be modeled in a way that it only registers if the collision is seen on both ends.

I know where he's comming from. Been there myself a few times.
and a bunch of times the other day when "I collided" 3 flights in a row

Now on my end two of those times the opposing pilot slammed into me on my end.
That is what he is talking about.

But 1 other times and same thing happened last week I "Collided" with a plane I didnt even see that climbed up and hit me from below

I've had other times when I thought I should have had a collision based on what I saw and didnt.

IMO I like the idea of collisions. But if it cant be more consistant They shouldnt have it. or better yet as I stated before.
Have it so you only get a collision if it registers as one on both ends

Bronk · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2006, 08:33:57 PM »

Collision model works as intended and is consistant.

Look at any film. If your plane touches any enemy ac at any time YOU did the hitting.

Why should the other guy take damage if he avoided it?

Bronk

E25280 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2006, 08:37:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Its too inconsistant . . . Now on my end two of those times the opposing pilot slammed into me on my end. . . .

Nothing inconsistent about it. You saw the opposing pilot hit you. Therefore, you collided and took damage.

From their perspective, they did not hit your airplane. Therefore, they did not collide.

There is no "who hit who" decision that goes on in the programming. The mistaken belief that there is this decision process is the source of many people's confusion. Rather, your computer is deciding if you occupy the same space as another aircraft. If it decides you do, you collide. Period.

The other guy has a slightly different perspective on the world due to internet lag. So, just because you see him fly right through your airplane (or rather, your computer does), does not mean that he (or his computer) saw the same thing.

That is, "The opposing pilot slammed into me on my end", and finishing the statement, he did not slam into you on his end. Therefore he did not collide, but you did. Nothing inconsistent.

Lusche · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2006, 08:49:57 PM »

Collision model is perfect the way it is. Internet lag is forcing the current solution.

Two popular "alternatives":

Turning it off:
Nobody would care about acm or shooting skills anymore. Just fly gunblazing INTO any enemy con. If you think you are alredy seeing lots HOs you would be surprised. Especially buffs would suffer a lot. Fly through them, shoot last seconds.

Both die:
Well, ramming would actually work now. You allready know suicide divebombers, now you will get to know suicide rammers who will almost almost succede in bringing you down (And no, they don´t do it now!). And imagine your of "fun" if you suddenly die from collision when you never got closer than 400 yds to the other plane

doobs · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2006, 09:17:33 PM »

did that ram have a HEMI?

Bronk · « **Reply #7 on:** December 30, 2006, 09:21:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by doobs
did that ram have a HEMI?

Nope he was in one of them Italian jobs.

Bronk

Benny Moore · « **Reply #8 on:** December 30, 2006, 09:37:40 PM »

Nice ram, Bronk.

68ROX · « **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2006, 09:50:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Nice ram, Bronk.

Wow. There IS no copyright on ignorance, is there.

For those who collide on purpose, they take their chances. For those who collide on accident, look at the streets of your own town and decide.

That is the sole reason I work for an insurance company.

ROX

Bronk · « **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2006, 09:52:28 PM »

Rox its ok benny was just playing. He wanted to get some friendly fights in his H2H room.

Bronk

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #11 on:** December 30, 2006, 11:51:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
Collision model works as intended and is consistant.

Look at any film. If your plane touches any enemy ac at any time YOU did the hitting.

Why should the other guy take damage if he avoided it?

Bronk

And If I did nothing to ram him yet he runs into me anyway.
Such as from underneith where I cant even see he baztard
How is that consistant?

And he didnt avoid it. it just didnt register on his end.

Sorry but I've seen alot of instances where I just tooling along and someone slams into me without even attempting to avoid a collision or my doing anything and I end up with the collision hit

I have also seen instances where I thought we shoudl have collided yet it registered him hitting me and my getting nothing

Argue it all you want but its not consistant. Nor is it fair.

Should be set up to only register a collision if both ends see it or it shouldnt be in there at all

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #12 on:** December 30, 2006, 11:53:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lusche
Collision model is perfect the way it is. Internet lag is forcing the current solution.

Two popular "alternatives":

Turning it off:
Nobody would care about acm or shooting skills anymore. Just fly gunblazing INTO any enemy con. If you think you are alredy seeing lots HOs you would be surprised. Especially buffs would suffer a lot. Fly through them, shoot last seconds.

Both die:
Well, ramming would actually work now. You allready know suicide divebombers, now you will get to know suicide rammers who will almost almost succede in bringing you down (And no, they don´t do it now!). And imagine your of "fun" if you suddenly die from collision when you never got closer than 400 yds to the other plane

3rd option. only have a collision when BOTH ends see it

Would be the same way Bullets work now No?
Both ends have to see the bullets from one plane collide witht he other to register a hit

mtnman · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2006, 01:17:28 AM »

Due to internet lag, from what I understand it is impossible for both pilots to see the same thing at the same time. When you see the other pilot, you aren't actually seeing where he is, but where he was a moment ago. If you see a collision, he likely won't, as he has already flown through that point while it was unoccupied by you. He likely see's you miss by several hundred feet. Since he saw a miss, but you saw a collision, you take the damage.

The plane you see is really more of a "shadow" so to speak. Almost like a banner of a plane dragged behind the plane. You never really see him, but rather his bannor. You manuever against his "bannor", and shoot at his "bannor", not actually at him. So if you fly into what you see as "him", he see's you fly through the space behind him. He see's that he has successfully avoided colliding, and is rewarded for that by taking no damage.

The spacing between the other plane and his "bannor" would vary depending on lag, speed, and angle. You would see the least space between the other plane and his "bannor" if you where flying the same speed as him, and going the same direction. However, if you where flying directly nose-nose, you should see the greatest distance between the other plane and the "bannor".

Bullet hits are not modeled to require both pilots to see hits for the "shot" plane to take damage. Only the "shooter" needs to see his bullets hit the other plane for damage to be awarded. Basically the opposite of how collision damage is awarded.

Remember, it is impossible for you to see the actual other plane. You are shooting at his shadow. Hit his shadow, and he will take hits, even if he thinks/sees you shoot behind him. If it were required that we both see hits or collisions for damage to be awarded, we would NEVER be able to hit each other. Sometimes both planes will "see" a collision. Both take damage then. Even then, though, if you see a collision that should damage his nose, he'll likely see damage against his tail from his view. Or a different part of his plane. NOT the same thing you see.

Maybe this is not what you would consider "ideal", but it is the only way to make a game like this work. Is it consistent? Yes. Our computers are not making random choices as to when damage is awarded, and to whom. They are following rules based on programing. If you see your bullets hit him, he takes damage. If you see a collision, you take damage.

Basically, when shooting at the other guy, be happy that when you see hits against him, he takes damage. Because in actuality, you missed by shooting behind him. And when it comes to collisions, simply avoid hitting the other plane. You only take collision damage when your computer sees it, so it's your fault. Even if you see the other plane hit you.

MtnMan

WMLute · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2006, 02:00:15 AM »

Quick def. of "see"

When they say you SAW the ram on your front end, that in no way means you as the pilot SAW it (i.e. he was under you and hit you, but was out of your visiaul sight being the pilot).

Rather, if your computer (your Front End or F.E.) registers your plane and another touching, it SEE's a collision. If you SEE a collision means if your computer, or FE see's it.

I had a huge argument w/ a guy who thought you could just look away and not take damage (i.e. he would look back on his 6 right b4 impact and was upset he took damage because he didn't "see" it) That's like saying the nme's bullets won't hurt you if you are not looking at 'em.

I actually had another total idiot the other day on range telling everybody that the collision depended on the plane because some were tougher than others,so they won't take damage in a ram.

(sigh)