Author Topic: Jeremy Clarkson-The Good The Bad The Ugly (Read 10242 times)

Bronk · « **Reply #270 on:** January 13, 2007, 07:37:05 AM »

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Originally posted by Viking
That's a brilliant looking car Diablo!

There's a car in that picture?

Bronk

Excel1 · « **Reply #271 on:** January 13, 2007, 07:48:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
This is really getting silly... as was pointed out, you can get twin turbo Mustangs right from the dealer... you can have your Z06 with a huffer on it and a factory warranty and have about 600 hp... both of those cars are affordable.... looks ast viking/schlotzs list of euro supercars.... the who's who of the ruling class are the only ones who can afford em.

You can build a car here with more hp than the most powerful euro supercar on the list for a tenth and..... you will be able to afford to drive it.

It is even more laughable to compare the euro modified scene for sheer size and money generated per year with Americas multi billion dollar one.

Some of you may not believe that there are a lot of 500 hp cars running around you but you are mistaken... sure.. there are a lot of metrosexuals driving camrays and such but somebody is buying all those billions of dollars worth of performance parts.

But then... no one answered my question.... How many of you who watch the show or who are talking about this stuff even change your own oil much less build a drivetrain or suspension?

lazs

I totally agree with you Lazs

I watch the show on tv when ever I can even though most of the cars reviewed don't have much relevance to me, through them being either too expensive or just too smurfy. My interests in cars generally lie elsewhere, but Top Gear is still interesting, often funny and good entertainment value.

Disposable income often has a lot to do with the amount of wrenching a person is prepared to do on their cars. Someone young and who is financial enough not to have to fix their own car when it breaks; or someone older and more affluent who wants the performance of a modified car can pay the pros to do the work for them, or they could just buy a factory car with the level of performance they want. But that's a generalization and not a rule. Myself and most of the petrol heads that I know do as much of the work on our cars as we can not so much to save money(although that is a benefit) but for the sheer enjoyment of it. It gets in your blood from the time you only could afford a pos clunker that you had to fix just to get from A to B.

The last car I worked on was my cousins HQ Holden (a legendary down under 1970s Aussie sedan) He swapped out the straight 6 drive train for a 383 Chev- TH350- 9 inch combination. The car was stripped back to the bare shell and completely rebuilt by my cousin myself and two mates. The only work we didn't do was the machining of the block and heads, everything else was done in his garage over 4 months of weekends mostly. These kind of builds can be a bit of a grind now and then when things don’t fit but overall it's a ton of fun and there's plenty of satisfaction when a 400+ hp cruiser built for not a lot of money rumbles out of the garage for the first time under it's own power.

Viking · « **Reply #272 on:** January 13, 2007, 04:03:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
DiabloTX, and for the uninitiated, that 55 Chevy in the photo is NOT a "muscle car".

The phrase "muscle car" has its roots in the early 60's, when Pontiac dropped a big block engine into, what was then, a small car. Thus any smallish car, with a big block motor is a "muscle car".

"Pony car" is your basic 2 door hardtop, which only has a backseat to fill the gap between the back of the front seats and the trunk. Typically the back seat is useless, unless it can be folded down. Horsepower is a bit irrelevant in this definition. This phrase came about more for the need to differentiate from "sports cars". In Europe, the auto purist would come unglued if he had to refer to a Mustang or Camaro as a "sports car".

"Hot rod", in the traditional sense, is an open wheel roadster, but has been used since those days to describe a car which has been modified from stock to include, but not neccessarily require, more horspower and/or better suspension.

All the above are designators for street cars. None apply to race cars. In this context, "race cars" are cars which cannot be legally driven on the street. All the above can be legally driven on the street.

Now Diablo, the 55 Chevy in your photo, is a hot rod. It's not a small car, scratch "muscle car". It has a practical back seat, scratch "pony car". It certainly is not a "sports car". Thus, it is a "hot rod".

"Street Rod", is one of the newer terms (all things being relative) in hot rodding and it really is the same as "hot rod", but considered a sub-category of "hot rod", for those who get confused about street legal cars versus race cars, or near-race cars.

There you have it I guess. Tricked out euroboxes or ricers are apparently not hot rods.

sluggish · « **Reply #273 on:** January 13, 2007, 04:47:08 PM »

Muscle Car-

Pony Car-

Hot Rod-

Neubob · « **Reply #274 on:** January 13, 2007, 05:24:22 PM »

Bald Rod

Skuzzy · « **Reply #275 on:** January 13, 2007, 05:38:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Viking
There you have it I guess. Tricked out euroboxes or ricers are apparently not hot rods.

All those terms, except "sports car" were created in the U.S. for U.S. cars. And most of those terms were born in the 50's and 60's.

The cars from Europe which come close to fitting any of those terms are the BMW M-series, and the MB AMG's. But, to be honest, they really are too polished to wear the term 'hot rod' or 'muscle car'.

If you were an American and grew up with those terms, you would understand there are more visceral feelings equated with those terms. It's not just the car, or the engine, or the suspension. Most hot rods or muscle cars are rough around the edges. Put together on a budget. Somewhere under the hood is bailing wire, holding something on.

But there is also pride. I really do not think it is possible for anyone outside of the U.S. to really come to grips with the terms we have lavished on our cars and what those terms mean to us.

No offense to anyone outside of the U.S. intended, but these terms are truly meant for our sloppy, shaky, rattling, squeaky cars who can cover the 1/4 mile in under 12 seconds (or better). That is another thing. The 12 second barrier means something. If your car can break it, in street trim, then you have something to grin about.

Yes, there are many European and Japanese cars which can go faster than greased lightning. But none of them can do it with the audacity, panache, and disrespect of our big steel boxes on wheels.

Bronk · « **Reply #276 on:** January 13, 2007, 06:04:25 PM »

Don't forget sport sedans.
Such as.

Bronk

Mark Luper · « **Reply #277 on:** January 13, 2007, 06:08:05 PM »

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Originally posted by Viking
There you have it I guess. Tricked out euroboxes or ricers are apparently not hot rods.

I like how Skuzzy explained it. It makes sense and was put in a way I really hadn't thought of before.

Personaly, I consider the euroboxes and ricers as "hotrods" but they still are "different", not quite the same as the hopped up american iron.

Mark

DiabloTX · « **Reply #278 on:** January 13, 2007, 06:46:28 PM »

What Skuzzy said.

Also, if you want a graphic example of why muscle cars are so much different than the imports, just bear through The Fast And The Furious when the Charger does a wheelie at the end of the movie on it's launch. It's not only ****in' cool lookin', it also has a purpose; weight transfer.

cpxxx · « **Reply #279 on:** January 13, 2007, 07:12:14 PM »

Dammit Skuzzy you're trying to end a marathon thread by making sensible and relevant points. Not fair:t But it just so happens I have an inkling of what makes American cars so fascinating. Someone round where I came from has an old tricked out yellow Chevy, probably a 57. He would pass the back of the house on the way home with that big old V8 growling. There is some kind of hollow spot in the laneway which amplifies the sound. The house virtually vibrates. You can feel it in your guts. When his friends are with him in their big American gas guzzlers. It's like an armoured division is passing. Incredible.

lazs2 · « **Reply #280 on:** January 14, 2007, 11:03:31 AM »

Ok.. the viking shlotzie guy doesn't get it.. his $82,000 bmw is proof of that... the clarkson show is perfect for his brand of people who don't get it.

Skuzzy, excel, cpxx , mark and a few others do get it.

The scene flourishes here and we are very lucky.. it flourishes here because it is an affordable thing.. we are lucky...

If Shelby would have built only a half dozen cobras then clarkson would have ignored em.

The show is perfect for people who don't know any better... for people who are only concerned about what they can buy with enough money and hope to gawd they never have to change the oil themselves.

There are dozens of shows that in the U.S. that would be boring to most people who care only about cars like they care about suits and shoes... They are very technical and hot rod oriented.

The defenition of hot rod is, and allways has been, morphing. Mostly tho.. I have no problem calling anything the owner modified to perform better a "hot rod". Their are limitiations of course... if more is spent on looks and comfort it is probly what we here call a "custom". I also don't mind the term....

Factory hot rod... this would cover some of the clarkson cars but especially the amg, roush and blown z06's running around.

That doesn't change the fact that gshlotz/viking is clueless and no fun to talk to about the scene.

Another thing that makes hot rods so cool is that there is always people that are around em in a parking lot.. they ignore cars costing 3 times as much to look at your hot rod... they smile when you fire it up and give you the thumbs up... you can tell they wish they could drive it or even ride in it.

I know the last is intangible but it is a big part of it.

lazs

Neubob · « **Reply #281 on:** January 14, 2007, 11:58:06 AM »

I'm surprised that this was never mentioned.

Or this:

Old news, but still noteworthy.

moot · « **Reply #282 on:** January 14, 2007, 12:05:22 PM »

Neubob, wasn't the W12 that preceded that one even more crazy?

Lazs, I think one of the things missed about the hot rod experience is the craftsmanship. Buying an AMG is like shopping for plastic-wrapped Ikea furniture online.. you don't even have a hand in creating what you're going to drive.
It's like choosing someone else's painting to hang in your home, rather than painting it yourself to fit perfectly with the rest of the surroundings.

Craftsmanship of that kind doesnt seem as widespread in Europe, but it's not inexistant either.
http://www.ducati-999.com

Neubob · « **Reply #283 on:** January 14, 2007, 12:19:27 PM »

I'm not sure about the w12, moot.

According to this site, however, the Turbo V8 WX3 boasted 1000 HP. Seems a bit absurd, and it's certainly not the prettiest of the superexotics.

Vector

moot · « **Reply #284 on:** January 14, 2007, 12:40:28 PM »

The W8 is the one I was thinking of. I had confused the WX3's 1000hp and the W8's squarish bodywork into one car.
It's strange they both have published top speeds only 1mph apart, despite the 400hp difference. You'd think the WX would be a lot more efficient being curvier and almost twice as powerful..