Author Topic: Collisions (Read 2446 times)

Schatzi · « **Reply #30 on:** January 10, 2007, 04:13:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl

In real life if 2 planes collide don't they BOTH suffer damage?

It seems to me both should suffer damage based upon the point of impact for each. Letting one fly off scott free, even if it's me just doesn't seem right.

1. Yes, IRL two planes colliding will both get damage. But this isnt real life planes, its a game thats subbject to internet limitations.

2. OK, you understood that the two players do NOT see the same thing? That due to lag effects, one might just have seen the other plane fly past him at d200, where as on the second computer, the planes hit each other?

Ok, now imagine this: I see a collision on my end. You see me fly past you at 150 yards.... with YOUR system, my computer would send a message to yours: "hey buddy, youve been rammed.... take damage to the left wing, fuselage and prop". Out of the blue entirely for you, youll be spinning to the ground dead (after all, you cannot know what I saw, for obvious reasons) - somehow this just doesnt seem right.

Benny Moore · « **Reply #31 on:** January 10, 2007, 05:13:40 AM »

A note to those short on reading comprehension (and I see quite a few of you in this thread); the scenario described by Shatzi is not what happens in the game right now. It's what would happen if those who desire collisions to affect both got their way.

The Fugitive · « **Reply #32 on:** January 10, 2007, 06:26:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl

In real life if 2 planes collide don't they BOTH suffer damage?

It seems to me both should suffer damage based upon the point of impact for each. Letting one fly off scott free, even if it's me just doesn't seem right.

The only way it could be set-up like "real life" is if we all came over to your house and flew on your computer at the same time.

How much beer ya got?

BaldEagl · « **Reply #33 on:** January 10, 2007, 09:21:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by The Fugitive
The only way it could be set-up like "real life" is if we all came over to your house and flew on your computer at the same time.

How much beer ya got?

Plenty. See you all there.

It's gonna be cozy in my office chair I guess.

Ghastly · « **Reply #34 on:** January 10, 2007, 10:20:29 AM »

Some horses never die.

This was written by Troy for WarBirds, but is just as germaine to AH as it was to WarBirds or AW.
http://www.errthum.com/troy/warbirds/tests/netlag.html

~~Grue~~

Kweassa · « **Reply #35 on:** January 10, 2007, 10:28:45 AM »

So basically, all you have to do is take precautions to not collide on your FE.

The world of internet has multiple sets of realities. When a collision occurs between two people, there are two different realities - your own FE, and his FE. What happens in his FE is none of your business. If you collided on your own FE than it's your version of reality that has got problems, not his. In other words, the way it is now, there is no collision in the game that is undeserved. Every collision is a deserved one and there can be no complaints about it.

Nobody forced anyone to go HO upto the last second, stick 10 yards behind the enemy plane, fly-by at dangerous distances, or go into a set of maneuvers that will put your plane at dangerously close distances to the enemy plane.

One could always have moved away.. but one did not do so. And therefore, he pays the price. Whether or not the other guy is damaged by the collision is pointless and irrelevant. The only thing important is if one experiences a collision, it is always entirely his own fault.

Benny Moore · « **Reply #36 on:** January 10, 2007, 10:44:56 AM »

Even if one pilot is flying straight and level, minding his own business, and some hot rock slams through from behind and below, it's still the "fault" of the first pilot for not detecting him and moving out of the way. In real life, he'd be just as dead, whether or not he saw it coming. Of course it is the other pilot's fault also, for doing the hitting. But wait! He didn't do the hitting, not on his front end. No collision occurred on his end. So he can't be responsible for something that never happened.

The fact that the other guy escapes even though, apparently to you, he initiated the collision is due to the fact that he avoided hitting you by about a hundred feet, according to his monitor. As I said in the last thread on this subject (which I'd wager hasn't fallen off of the front page yet), if you don't understand what's going on, don't complain about the implementation of the solution.

Clifra Jones · « **Reply #37 on:** January 10, 2007, 11:24:17 AM »

PLEASE SOMEONE MAKE IT GO AWAY!

Anyways, there is an audio clip of HiTech explaining this at the con that is an excellent explanation of the collision model. Anyone who doesn't understand why it is the way it is should spend the time to listen to it. Links are in this BBS so just search for it.

With that said I'm convinced that most of the people who consistently argue against the current system, even after getting concise explanations such as were posted here, never will.

Suffice it to say, it is the way it is and it ain't gonna change.

crockett · « **Reply #38 on:** January 10, 2007, 02:30:20 PM »

oops didn't know this was such a heated debate.. I was just kinda getting ticked off about getting killed while the other guy seemed to fly off scott free. So I started the topic in hopes of getting a better explanation, but didn't want to start a big debate..

Simaril · « **Reply #39 on:** January 10, 2007, 02:46:42 PM »

And in all seriousness, Crokett, that's where the "search" comment came from. Up until the last 6 months or so, there was a collision thread every 2-3 weeks. (I dont think I'm exaggerating.) They slowed down after the CON because so many people heard and understood the podcast of HT's detailed explanation.

crockett · « **Reply #40 on:** January 10, 2007, 05:43:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Simaril
And in all seriousness, Crokett, that's where the "search" comment came from. Up until the last 6 months or so, there was a collision thread every 2-3 weeks. (I dont think I'm exaggerating.) They slowed down after the CON because so many people heard and understood the podcast of HT's detailed explanation.

Yes but I did use the search and skimmed through the first 2 or 3 pages and there wasn't any direct topics on the subject. There were topics on changes in the collision model recently but no direct topics about how it works.

Now I'm not saying that info might not have been in any of those posts.. But the term collision brings up a bunch of search results and I'm not going to read through 200 topics that don't look like they might have the info from the title.

When I searched I found the info about it being registered on your computer but it wasn't from any of the official HTC people. So knowing that any other game I've ever played didn't work like that, I figured that it was wrong.

Benny Moore · « **Reply #41 on:** January 11, 2007, 05:39:08 AM »

Every aerial combat simulator I've used has the collision problem. The reason most other games don't is because on the ground, everything moves a lot slower. When you're moving at, say, 30 M.P.H., the lag matters a lot less than when you're moving at 300 M.P.H. I think that someone moving at 300 M.P.H. in a game with 100 ping is going to have the same sort of lag problems that someone going 30 M.P.H. would have if he had 1000 ping.

Serenity · « **Reply #42 on:** January 11, 2007, 06:41:55 AM »

I think, Im not sure the effects this would have, is that if one person feels it, they both do. I know no two computers can be synchronised perfectly, but how about a several milisecond grace period? I have been rammed ON THE GROUND, from BEHING by an La-7. No, its kinda hard to miss the ground, but only I took damage. Now, he knew he rammed me, and yet nothing happened. Thats BS. If I register someone as ramming me, he takes damage, but so do I. I can live with that. I dont mind taking damage when I get rammed so long as he does too. I know this sounds vengeful, but there is nothing more irksome than being rammed from some direction other than the front, and only you take damage. Ive had one of the best fights of my life end, because he stalled and took both my wings off, and he went on undamaged. Hell, I can probably dig that film up for you if you want. All im saying is that if one person feels it, someone else should. I know the 1k away is often used as an example, but I have never seen it. Whenever I get rammed its by someone who is withing 200 yards of me, both on their computer, (I would assume, otherwise they are mentally ill, because they are flying like im right next to them) and mine. And if your computer is so bad that you are ramming people from 1K away, by all means, you die too. I just think that no computers are quite that bad. I know mine is quite low-end, and my internet connection is shotty, but I still get a ping of only 109 at WORST. I dont think ANYONE has a bad enough lag that they would get collisions as far apart as is often used in examples. Just my oppinion.

Benny Moore · « **Reply #43 on:** January 11, 2007, 07:00:31 AM »

Well, since you officially have no idea how the thing works and have resisted all attempts to alleviate the problem by people who do or at least have an inkling, I'm no longer going to make that attempt. Hitech won't change it and everyone who knows how the thing works, or at least kind of knows, is glad for that. Good day, drips.

P.S. I collide perhaps once in every two days of flying, and have flown various simulators for about eight years. That makes a lot of collisions, and I've never had one that I didn't deserve.

Lusche · « **Reply #44 on:** January 11, 2007, 08:29:53 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Serenity
I just think that no computers are quite that bad. I know mine is quite low-end, and my internet connection is shotty, but I still get a ping of only 109 at WORST. I dont think ANYONE has a bad enough lag that they would get collisions as far apart as is often used in examples. Just my oppinion.

Usually your own hardware, if properly configured, doesnt influence ping time much. It´s much more dependent on where you live (=distance to HTC), your ISP etc. I have a quite good connection but a ping of 109 is one I can only dream about, my ping is varying about 149 at best and 176 at bad days. Other players in europe do have ping times at about 200 or worse And as long their connection is stable, they do not warp, though.