Author Topic: TrackIR and AH View System (Read 2586 times)

Schatzi · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2007, 08:42:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Condor

Now I may be revealing my ineptitude but what is the value of the "optimum over the nose view" in close combat?

Imagine youre tracking someone in a left hand turn... start pulling lead and hell quickly dissappear under your nose. Now use your "over the nose" view (set all the way up and to the left) and hold your nose a little above your opponent in the turn. You can now easily track him under your cowling (and having the nose a little high also gains you some E) untill you have the correct amount of lead. Then you just need to lower the nose a bit and boom

.

Ill try to catch some screenies later.

Another nice time to have that view is for CV landings.

PS: I have the view set left, since most planes have clockwise rotating engines, ie 90% of the time, youll find yourself in a left hand turn.

Condor · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2007, 10:25:27 AM »

Schatzi,

Thanks for clarifying what should have been obvious to me. I just flew a little with what you said in mind. I guess I've never thought about it but using TIR I do what you described naturaly without thinking and I can do it in either direction. I guess that's a point for TIR.

Balsy · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2007, 12:33:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Condor
I

Balsy,

I want to be sure I understand. Are you pausing TIR with the pointer finger button which forces the forward view with the hat centered and no TIR. and then restarting it with release I'm not sure how to set that up but I see the advantage to one less finger movement.

Thanks

What Mace and I are describing is the same thing. Do NOT pause TIR, simply map a button to the FORWARD view in AH.

So when your ready to shoot, you hold that button down. This locks your view forward but allows X and Y inputs from TIR, looking around the cowling etc.. but eliminates YAW and PITCH view inputs from TIR, which would cause you to have a bad "site picture" because your actually looking a few degrees left or right of center due to yaw inputs.

This method is beneficial for the following reasons:

1. Does not "turn on and off Tir" causing disorientation.

2. Does not require a 2nd click to then RECENTER the forward view with Tir OFF.

3. Is a "toggle" which allows you to quickly release the button to reacquire the target, and depress when your ready to shoot.

4. Ensures no matter WHERE your virtual head is in the cockpit it is looking down the dead nuts (0 degrees yaw, 0 degrees pitch). This means you can take accurate shots looking through the site, in the "seat up" position that Schatzi refers too, or off to the side of the cockpit looking along the cowling.

Hope that helps clarify it.

Balsy

The key thing about

straffo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2007, 04:54:17 PM »

I got my track IR this WE so I tested it offline 1st then in the TA the only thing I can says is : the more aggressive the better ,at least for me.

Now I need to die a bit

HomeBoy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 16, 2007, 01:06:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mace2004
I think that the way it works now is just about perfect.

Mace,
Would you be kind enough to post your profile xml file (it's just a few lines of text) you use here so I can compare yours to mine? I have adjusted mine a number of times and would love to compare to "just about perfect." I'm sure others would like to see it too.

Thank you!

Mace2004 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 16, 2007, 04:37:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Condor
I appreciate the suggstions but am having difficulty visualizing some of what I'm reaading.

Mace,

If with TIR locked in the forward view as you describe. what is the advantage of the side to side translation if the bullet path is down the centerline? Why wouldn't it still be better to use the sight even for deflection shots. Does the side to side translation help you with the amount of lead required? I have tried and do see the advantage of the rear view as you described

Balsy,

I want to be sure I understand. Are you pausing TIR with the pointer finger button which forces the forward view with the hat centered and no TIR. and then restarting it with release I'm not sure how to set that up but I see the advantage to one less finger movement.

Now I may be revealing my ineptitude but what is the value of the "optimum over the nose view" in close combat?

One thing I'm getting from this thread is that there may be no best way to set up views with or without TIR and that I just need to find a setup that works for me and get profficient with it. Then it's practice, practice, practice....

Thanks

Condor, sorry I've been out of touch for a few days but I think Schatzi and Balsy have covered it pretty well. If you want a real good example of how much being able to slide to the side helps hop in a P51 or even better a 163. While "locked" in forward view slide to the side you can see about 30 degrees below your nose and you'll understand what I'm talking about. The hurricane gives a good example of what you can see by sliding forward and up. In all of these cases you cannot "see" the gunsight but the bullets still go to the center of the screen. This is similar to RL "snapshots" where you just point your nose in front of a close target and pull the trigger, it's more "shooting from the hip" than precision shooting but works well with an aircraft flying through the space directly ahead of you at close range.

Schatzi · « **Reply #21 on:** January 16, 2007, 05:29:16 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mace2004
... it's more "shooting from the hip" than precision shooting but works well with an aircraft flying through the space directly ahead of you at close range.

You mean if its within 50 yards, its hard to miss?

HomeBoy · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2007, 05:29:52 PM »

For anyone interested, here is the profile I've been developing and tweeking for several months now.

AH2
Customized Aces High II
10
0 1
1

Mace2004 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2007, 07:43:36 PM »

Here's mine Homeboy. You'll see that I've mostly eliminated the dead zones along the axis. This makes the tracking smoother for me and gives less of that "rubber band" feeling when your view moves near/across the pitch and yaw axies.

-
Mace2

86
0
1
0
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-

-

-

-

-

Mace2004 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2007, 07:44:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Schatzi
You mean if its within 50 yards, its hard to miss?

Yep, this is called "filling your windscreen" with target, it's hard to miss.

Schatzi · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2007, 08:05:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mace2004
Yep, this is called "filling your windscreen" with target, it's hard to miss.

Hehe. Someone has very obviously never seen me shoot

.

~~Mace!~~

HomeBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2007, 09:18:03 PM »

Thank you Mace.
Smoothing at 86! Wow.
I'm looking forward to trying yours and see how I like it.

I appreciate you taking the time to post your profile.
-hb

HomeBoy · « **Reply #27 on:** January 17, 2007, 12:04:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mace2004
Here's mine Homeboy.

Mace,
I flew with your profile tonight only I copied my Roll settings to yours and enabled it. I have spent the last 15 min offline flying with Roll disabled as you do. It seems that the view is less, I don't know, "complicated", or something like that with Roll disabled. Does eliminating the 6th axis make TIR behave better? It seems to. I am going to fly tomorrow night with Roll disabled and see if I can discern the difference. Of course, my Roll settings are very slight but one thing I have noticed about TIR from day one is how when I'm whipping my head around in a fight, the views can get "weird" and I have to reset several times to get things right again. I have lost my target many times over that. Does turning off Roll help that?

I assigned the "pinky" button on my FigherStick to be the KP8 view and I see what you mean about holding that down when I'm lining up a shot and how useful it is to look up over the nose when pulling lead. I like that a lot. I'll definitely keep that method in place.

Thanks so much for the help on this. This is my first time really seeking help on TIR. I've just sort of been figuring it out myself up till now. This is really helpful.

-hb

Mace2004 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 17, 2007, 09:31:39 AM »

I don't think TIR behaves "better" with roll disabled, I think it's more to do with reducing the number of variables in the view.

Ideally you'd think TIR should exactly replicate your head movements in the cockpit (including roll) but that's probably not the best thing to do because you're missing a lot of the information you would normally have regarding where you are actually looking.

For instance, in a real cockpit I have complete sense of where I'm looking because I have all of my physical senses. In other words even with my eyes closed I'll know what direction I'm facing relative to the aircraft, there's no "interpretation" going on. I "know" when I'm turned around to the left, leaning towards to nose of the plane while using my hand to push off the canopy to one side so I can see around the headrest to check my high 7 o'clock. Plus, in RL you have greater peripherial vision close to 180 degrees or almost twice what you can "see" in AH.

You don't get these clues with TIR, instead you're limited to "interpreting" very slight head motions and this can easily lead to losing track of your head position relative to your aircraft. 7 o'clock high looks the same as 9 o'clock high especially when there are no aircraft parts in view. You have to compensate for this by learning how slight differences in your head angle and body position translate into views so that you can keep your situational awareness. To me, adding roll into an already complex problem just contributes to the complexity and adds additional interpretation that you just don't need. By leaving roll off your views remain stable in the roll axis (i.e., parallel to your wing plane) while still allowing full pitch and yaw movements necessary to keep sight.

Regarding your views getting "weird" you may just be having a problem with moving your head too much or not having TIR set up with the reflectors centered in the sensor. When you move outside of the TIR sensor field of view TIR doesn't know where you're looking and so locks for a few moments then usually returns to the centered view. With the latest software there is also a problem where losing track of the reflectors causes TIR to lock looking straight down into the seat. This is easily reset by looking at the center of your screen and hitting recenter.

Call up the TIR software and adjust the direction of the sensor so that all three of your reflectors are visible throughout your normal range of motion. I've found that wearing the reflector hat angled up slightly also helps. If this doesn't solve the problem try moving your seat and controls farther away from the sensor or, if you can, move the sensor farther away from you. This helps to keep the reflectors visible throughout a greater range of motion.

Mace

straffo · « **Reply #29 on:** January 17, 2007, 10:03:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mace2004
Regarding your views getting "weird" you may just be having a problem with moving your head too much or not having TIR set up with the reflectors centered in the sensor. When you move outside of the TIR sensor field of view TIR doesn't know where you're looking and so locks for a few moments then usually returns to the centered view.

In my limited experience it's an indication that the TIR response is not agressive enought.