Author Topic: TrackIR and AH View System (Read 2642 times)

Condor · « **on:** January 10, 2007, 11:46:44 AM »

Let me say first of all, this is not a troll. I am not looking for opinions on which is better, TrackIR or the AH view system using a hat switch. After 4 months in AH I believe there are advantages to both and that switching from one to the other may be helpful depending on circumstance. I have tried this with limited success and wonder if anyone uses both systems successfully.

I find Tack IR to be great for general SA since it is so natural to look around and have an almost unlimited ability to adjust the view with small changes in head position. I have problems, however, in a fight while trying to close on and aim at an NME while checking my 6 and other views for threats. For example, I may be saddled up on an NME centered in my sites at 1,000 yards and closing. I turn my head to check my 6 and then back to the front view to find that, because my head has not returned to exactly the same position, the gun sight is off to one side slightly and I no longer seem to be right on the NME’s 6. This is easily fixed since I have a button to re-center Track IR. I hit it and see that the NME is still centered in my sight or to what extent I may be off. But then, if I try to check my 6 again I find that my rear view has changed because I have centered Track IR to a new head position, sometimes to the extent that I don’t have a good rear view. I then return to the front view to find it’s a little off again. I can then re-center Track IR with my head in a position that I know will give me a good rear view so I can check my 6 but then I need to re-center when I return to the forward view if I hope to still shoot the NME, since my head has not gone back to exactly the same position. I have similar challenges with ground attack. I like to zoom the view in when aiming which further compounds the challenge.

What I would like to do is set up and save fixed zoomed and unzoomed views to be used via the hat switch with Track IR paused. (I have switches on my CH Fighterstick to pause and re-center TrackIR.) I could then pause TrackIR in situations like I described and use the saved views.

I have set up and saved views as described on the Training Corps website. They work fine until after I use TrackIR again. The next time I pause TrackIR and use the hat switch the saved views seem to be lost. Has anyone else tried this with any success? I know I’m asking for the best of both worlds but it seem like it should be possible.

I assume other TrackIR users have encountered the same issue. Is there another solution?

Any help will be appreciated.

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2007, 12:14:06 PM »

I keep my trackIR enabled and DO NOT recenter it for aim. I just hold down my UP button on my hat switch. That overrides my trackIR and centers my view for aiming purposes.

Traveler · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2007, 12:19:44 PM »

I did notice early on that the recorded views that I had built using AHViews all returned to there original default view position after I started using IRTracker.

I have switched to IRTracker exclusively and stopped using AHViews, except in Vehicles and have learned to deal with re-centering my head position, by moving my head, just as must have actually happened when a pilot checked his six while closing on an nme aircraft. It's not that big a deal.

I've also found that I'm making deflection shots most of the time and seldom is the nme aircraft centered in my line of sight, but most often in a turning fight and is well below my nose.

My SA is much better using IRTracker. The only thing I wish is that the head movements for IR Tracker would be recorded as the AHViews are, so that when reviewing films I could see my actual head views.

Schatzi · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2007, 01:16:35 PM »

Condor,

I believe that you can "override" the TrackIR with your hatswitch views at any time. That means, you could map yourself a "centered" look forward shooting view to a JS button and use it to aim/kill.

Im no expert with TrackIR, mind you - so I could be completely off base here

.

Mace2004 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2007, 02:00:57 PM »

What Kermit said but I think he means "forward" on the hat switch vice "up" and as he says do not recenter. I've had no use for the majority of the AH view system while flying although I still use it for GV's and ground guns.

In the normal AH view system the "resting" position (i.e., no buttons pushed) is directly ahead. Pushing the hat switch to forward points the same direction but you can save a different head position so you actually have two pre-programmed views ahead. Before I started using TIR I had the resting position pretty far back from the windshield. When hitting forward my view moved as far forward and up as possible to give the best over the nose visibility for deflection shots.

Since switching to TIR I didn't need to change this but the way it works now is "resting" means I have full head movement (angles and translations) with TIR. By pushing POV1 forward my head becomes "locked" in the forward view direction and it ignores the angles from TIR while still reacting to translations so I can sit up higher/lower, move forward/back or to one side and the view moves but is always locked parallel to the aircraft centerline. The center of the screen in this mode is always the same point in space and it always gives you a constant point of reference and this is what I always use for gunnery.

Also, as Schatzi says, the POV switch will always override TIR angles but they do not reflect memorized (F10) head positions, just the view angle. Just as in forward view, your translations still work so you can use the POV switch to look directly aft and still use TIR to move your head around the headrest.

Old Sport · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2007, 08:30:46 PM »

Other TIR strategies:

1) The more aggressive your settings, the less you have to move your head in the first place. If your settings are not agressive, you have to move your head a lot to get the view where you want. That means you are less likely to return to your original center view. You might bump up settings if they are weak - except for roll which should be weak. I took agressive settings and made them more agressive actually. Leave some deadband in the center. My deadband is set pretty low, but it will be hard to shoot without some.

2) Before I hit center, I close my eyes and try to find my head-centered relaxed posture. Then with eyes closed, I hit center. Then after looking around, use your muscle memory to return you to your relaxed centered position. Practice makes perfect.

3) You could get a high-backed chair with a headrest. Lean back to the headrest, hit center, and then whenever you want to fire, lean back to the headrest.

Best regards

Benny Moore · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2007, 06:31:18 AM »

One important thing to remember is that if you do not have Vector Expansion, rotation of your virtual head is not only caused by rotation of your real head but also by movement of your real head. If you look behind you and find that you're off center when you look ahead again, don't recenter. Move your body to one side until you are centered again.

I've still not got it right, but I ergonomically rearranged my desk, taking measurements and everything. I'm trying to get it so that I am looking exactly straight forward at the monitor when I sit (as well as improving my posture). You'd be surprised how easy it is to shift a few inches to one side and not know it, even when your chair is in exactly the right place.

SunKing · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2007, 09:34:01 PM »

I just bought the trackir4 package and I'll tell ya, it's soo tough to change old habits.

Did you guys removed your views from your hat switches to force yourself to use the TIR4 only?

Lusche · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2007, 09:51:23 PM »

I just left left/right/back/fwdup mapped as a kind of emergency backup views in case AH loses TIR tracking (happens about every 30th flight or so). But I am not able anymore to fight effectively with these views, so I usually RTB and restart game.

I don´t have a forward view button anymore, so unlike many others I was forcing myself from start to shoot just using TIR, not any fixed forward view.

GVs is another story, I usually use the hat views for most situations. Especially when in gunenrs position TIR is useles there. I do use TIR in GVs for longer overland drives with high aerial threat, or when dodging bombs in my Tiger (I drive from commanders position in that case).

Mace2004 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2007, 10:36:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SunKing
I just bought the trackir4 package and I'll tell ya, it's soo tough to change old habits.

Did you guys removed your views from your hat switches to force yourself to use the TIR4 only?

It is tough at first. I thought about "unmapping" my POV switch but didn't, I just ended up forcing myself to not use it. I found it only takes a couple of sessions although there were still a few times during the first month I reverted but got over it completely.

Condor · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2007, 10:44:18 PM »

I now have my controls set up so I can use the saved AH views in close combat (or any other time I want them) and TIR the rest of the time. I use the pinky switch on my CH fighterstick to toggle TIR on and off. It can be done quickly since my little finger rests over it naturally. I have the up (forward) POV hat position set to center TIR. When I'm closing on an NME I stop TIR by hitting the pinky switch and center the forward view by up POV hat. It doesn't have to be held, just tapped and released. I then have all of the saved views using the POV and can move my view from front to back and the views are locked until I start TIR again by hitting the pinky switch. It seems the centering is important when TIR is paused or the forward saved view will be a liitle off center. I've only been doing it for a couple of days but it's quick and smooth and I think will improve my shooting while allowing me to check my 6.

Mace is right about the front (up) POV hat position freezing the TIR angles but I have trouble adjusting the side to side and up and down head translations to center the pipper. I also have trouble keeping the POV in the up forward position as I use my fingers to fire the primary and secondary weapons. It takes very little to move it to one of the 45 degree forward positions and I find my view jumping around. Its locked in the center after pausing TIR and recentering and I don't have to hold the hat switch in any position while getting into position and firing. Just a touch on the pinky switch restores full TIR function.

Now the disclaimer, I'm fairly new at this and don't get many kills. right now this seems like it will work best for me but I'm far from expert. In a month I may be trying something different.

HomeBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2007, 06:05:33 AM »

I would love to see AH program this so that TIR is temporarily disabled when you press the view position commands just as they do when you go to the external view. That would make for a perfect merge between the two viewing systems. I tried to program my CH FighterStick so that when I press (for example) my POV-rear hat (sends KP2) that the script first pauses TIR then performs the "KP2" command. It works and I do get the saved view but it takes over a full second for TIR to turn off which makes the whole idea pretty worthless.

Mace2004 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2007, 09:37:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by HomeBoy
I would love to see AH program this so that TIR is temporarily disabled when you press the view position commands just as they do when you go to the external view. That would make for a perfect merge between the two viewing systems. I tried to program my CH FighterStick so that when I press (for example) my POV-rear hat (sends KP2) that the script first pauses TIR then performs the "KP2" command. It works and I do get the saved view but it takes over a full second for TIR to turn off which makes the whole idea pretty worthless.

I think that the way it works now is just about perfect. By locking out the rotation commands your forward view is perfectly parallel to the aircraft centerline for gunnery while still allowing you to slide to one side or forward for excellent deflection shots.

With this setup the bullets are always going to the center of your screen even if you can't see the gunsight. If they did what you're proposing you'd be stuck with a view that's just straight down the windscreen centerline and you'd lose this ability.

When you're checking six I assume you want the POV switch to command your pre-saved position but remember if you do this you only see adequately down one side of the aircraft while TIR lets you slide around and gives you a much better view. Try TIR in a Zeke or P51 (there are others). With their headrest designs you can rotate your head to check six and with a slight slide to one side and forward you can actually see across the aircraft behind the headrest, you can't do this with saved views.

If you're not a fan of the translations then you also have the option of disabling them in the TIR profile.

Balsy · « **Reply #13 on:** January 15, 2007, 06:17:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Condor
SNIP
Mace is right about the front (up) POV hat position freezing the TIR angles but I have trouble adjusting the side to side and up and down head translations to center the pipper. I also have trouble keeping the POV in the up forward position as I use my fingers to fire the primary and secondary weapons. It takes very little to move it to one of the 45 degree forward positions and I find my view jumping around. Its locked in the center after pausing TIR and recentering and I don't have to hold the hat switch in any position while getting into position and firing. Just a touch on the pinky switch restores full TIR function.

.

Condor, instead of mapping a button to turn off, and then recenter (two separate switches), try mapping one button ( I have the pointer finger button on my CH throttle) mapped so when its depressed it forces the foreard view, and when you release your back to normal TIR. That way the only time you pull that button in, is right before you shoot.

I tried it the way you've described above for awhile, and found that the it is 1. too cumbersome in a dogfight. 2. removes your ability to look around the cowling for some nice shots. 3. doesnt give you the optimum "over the nose" view in many airplanes.

JMHO

Balsy

Condor · « **Reply #14 on:** January 15, 2007, 08:18:06 AM »

I appreciate the suggstions but am having difficulty visualizing some of what I'm reaading.

Mace,

If with TIR locked in the forward view as you describe. what is the advantage of the side to side translation if the bullet path is down the centerline? Why wouldn't it still be better to use the sight even for deflection shots. Does the side to side translation help you with the amount of lead required? I have tried and do see the advantage of the rear view as you described

Balsy,

I want to be sure I understand. Are you pausing TIR with the pointer finger button which forces the forward view with the hat centered and no TIR. and then restarting it with release I'm not sure how to set that up but I see the advantage to one less finger movement.

Now I may be revealing my ineptitude but what is the value of the "optimum over the nose view" in close combat?

One thing I'm getting from this thread is that there may be no best way to set up views with or without TIR and that I just need to find a setup that works for me and get profficient with it. Then it's practice, practice, practice....

Thanks