Author Topic: A New Way Forward In Iraq  (Read 4589 times)

Offline Dos Equis

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A New Way Forward In Iraq
« Reply #135 on: January 13, 2007, 02:56:24 PM »
Why doesn't the US military simply vacate the city? Withdraw to the pipeline and  draw a line near al-Nasiryah and simply hold down the oil fields? Let the roaming death squads in the city from Sunni/Shia factions rip each other apart and tear the city to shreds? At this point, what US interest is there in the city itself?

Let's look at what the Bush admin really thinks, when the get the breifings they listen to from Wolfiwitz and the AEI. Most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi, Osama is Saudi, the Bush family has deep ties with the Saudis. the Saudis control 24% of the world's oil reserves, however - Iraq has at least 12% and perhaps much much more. That's all we want - these religious matters are simply tools at the US disposal. We want to be free of the Saudi power, we're tired of their influence and we want the royal family dead and direct control of fields by the oil companies. We're tired of the Chinese and Russian oil blocks buying up interest in fields, and the Saudis playing east vs. west. Screw that, that oil is ours. France and the EU can go suck dust, or start doing the electric car - the US of A wants that crude to ease down the dependance on foreign oil slowly. Our run rate is much higher.

Let's blockade the Gulf entrance and start spending the money to start new wells and drill, pump and remove as fast as we can. Increase the US strategic oil reserve capacity by a factor of 4 - start building massive holding tanks in Alaska. Just pump the damn country dry. Most of the wells are in the desert, anybody who approaches without a US transponder gets a M1 tank round in the windshield.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/IraqOilMap.pdf

We need to pump the country dry as quickly as possible. The US went into Kurdish city and captured some Iranians who are organizing the terror. those bastards are funneling IEDs in and weapons. So are the Syrians.

In Bush's speech night before last, he mentioned bringing new Patriot missiles in. You doon't use those against insurgents. He's worried about the Iranians firing missiles into the conflict. He's sending a message. Go read the speech transcript if you don't think so, when he gets to the part about the Patriot missiles.

This is a gambit to stop the control and influence the Saudi government has by controlling so much oil. This is a gambit to break OPEC, and get the damn crude. So - let's move the army to open areas - not urban areas - and secure the stuff and get contractors in there to start as many wells and running as many barrels out of there as possible. The tanker trucks need checkpoints and driver screening, spend the money there.

20,000 troops on top of 130,000 isn't going to cut it if we just stick them into street warfare. I'm tired of the IEDs and sniping, we need to open up ranges and get out of the city. Spend some cash on RFID tags, and start using gunships to wipe out cars on certain roads who dont have them.

Read the accounts of retaking Fallujah. The intensity of the urban combat. Baghdad will be even harder to reclaim streets and start marching into Mosques and arresting clerics and insurgents. The hell with it, just burn the city - let the blood run from the gutters - we need to move south and take what we came for.

if the Iranians oppose our ships in the Gulf, or if they get snarky and try and attack us with terror - I say we use tactical nukes on their nuclear power plant facility. It may be hardened and mostly underground, but it doesn't do much good if anybody who approaches the area dies from radiation poisoning. Light that mountain range up so hot that Chernobyl looks like a resort community - turn the entire area into a microwave oven. because if you think for one moment that as soon as Chalabi figures out how to use that depleted urnaium and make a bomb, he's gonna stick that thing into a pickup truck and drive it to Baghdad and light the fuse. We have to stop him before it gets there.

The Cold War is over, global nuclear proliferation has begun. it's time to hot war the Muslim world now, before Islamofascism gets the bomb. Meanwhile, we need that oil and the damn city of Baghdad can burn to the ground for all we care.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2007, 03:07:45 PM by Dos Equis »

Offline john9001

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A New Way Forward In Iraq
« Reply #136 on: January 13, 2007, 02:59:26 PM »
John Kerry was "wounded" three times, does that count as three men wounded when they do the stats?

there is no "war" in iraq, just some terrorists blowing up cars because they know if they blow up enough cars  the bad americans will go home.

Offline Hap

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« Reply #137 on: January 13, 2007, 03:17:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad So was it "lies"? Or just bad intel from the US, Germany, Israel, Russia, Britain, China and France?


My understanding that up to a chronological point, "bad intel" was the culprit.

After that point, more of a sales job.

Best profile/digest I've seen of it, and I'm probably going to get it wrong, but it'll ring a bell, a PBS, Frontline, is it?  Maybe not, but an available online for free, show that aired on TV, detailing the reiterterating theme of WMD after the Administration began getting intel that such was not the case and desired other intel to back up their cause.

Regards,

hap

p.s.  Yes, it is Frontline.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline//////

I dont' know which piece though.  Maybe "Rumsfeld's War."

Offline Hazzer

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A New Way Forward In Iraq
« Reply #138 on: January 13, 2007, 06:39:48 PM »
Maybe if Blair had studied his own countrys history he could have directed Bush to this by T.E. Lawrence published in the times in August 1920.

 " the people of england have been led in Mesopotamia(Iraq) into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour.They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information.The Baghdad communiques are belated,insincere,incomplete.Things,have been far worse than we have been told,our administration more bloody and inefficient than the public knows...We are today not far from disaster."


Politicians never change!I have vowed never to vote positivley again since voting for that messianic fantasist Blair!

Like my father said "you can always tell an honest politican....he's the one with the pink bowler hat".
"I murmured that I had no Shoes,till I met a man that had no Feet."

Offline VermGhost

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A New Way Forward In Iraq
« Reply #139 on: January 13, 2007, 11:21:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
2 -  "Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20"  is rubbish.  There was no small minority of voices in 2002 and 2003 saying the Iraq invasion was wrong and based on shaky evidence and transparent reasoning.


The Senate voted in favor for the invasion of Iraq.  So much for the "no small minority of voices in 2002/03 saying the Iraq invasion was wrong and based on shaky evidence and transparent reasoning."

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237
« Last Edit: January 13, 2007, 11:35:25 PM by VermGhost »

Offline lukster

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« Reply #140 on: January 14, 2007, 12:06:51 AM »
The average Iraqi or other camel jockey does not have to watch TV to know that America is sharply divided over our presence in Iraq. It takes only their leaders to know what's going on here for it to then be wide spread knowledge. Does anyone here really think these guys don't know what's going?

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #141 on: January 14, 2007, 12:36:30 AM »
I'd  agree with that. The average Iraqi or camel jockey knows more about what's going on than the average American or redneck cowboy. :p

Offline Hap

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« Reply #142 on: January 14, 2007, 01:41:06 AM »
Rolex, there's nothing I've read off the O'Club boards over time that would suggest you got that one wrong.

Anyone been reading the Iraqi boards?

Regards,

hap

Offline AquaShrimp

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A New Way Forward In Iraq
« Reply #143 on: January 14, 2007, 03:07:44 AM »
Iraq is the modern generations' Vietnam.  I'm just thankfull that the draft is long gone.  

Is there really any question as to how this war is going to end?  The U.S. will pull out, and Iraq will end up like Somalia.

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #144 on: January 14, 2007, 03:39:01 AM »
You know Hap, I'm a fairly level-headed guy who doesn't get mad about too many things. Life is pretty darn good for those of us who have clean water, food, medicine and money.

After an unusual week of being trapped in meetings with some handsomehunkes, my glass of patience was empty and it showed. I'd had enough of the obsessive people here who tediously inject irrelevant, political obsessions into any topic.

What in the hell does John Kerry have to do with how many people were killed or wounded in Vietnam? In a normal situation, we'd walk away from a wild-eyed lunatic on the street spewing random political rants into any conversation.

And what in the hell does "Iraqis or other camel jockeys" add to a discussion? Why not just say "Iraqis?"

I think the topic was started in good faith to have a discussion and many people have tried to keep it a discussion, but the "griefer network" always shows up to try to bring everything down to their level. I swear, the internet proves day after day that the planet is infested with handsomehunkes and people in need of medication and counseling to control their obsession to turn everything into a Democrat-Republican, left-right, red-blue spitting match.

Most of the time I just read and laugh. Every once in a while, I sit with my elbows perched on my desk, chin resting in my hands, staring at the monitor thinking, "Wow. How in the world do some of these people get jobs?"

Whew. I feel better now. :)

Offline Debonair

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« Reply #145 on: January 14, 2007, 04:45:21 AM »
griefer networking:O:O:aok:aok:aok:rofl:rofl:rofl:noid   :noid

Offline oboe

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« Reply #146 on: January 14, 2007, 07:00:29 AM »
Rolex,

Many times after reading one of your posts I've thought, "Man, I'm glad somebody said that, and put it that well."




Hap, where are "the Iraqi boards"?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2007, 07:39:22 AM by oboe »

Offline Viking

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« Reply #147 on: January 14, 2007, 07:22:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by VermGhost
The Senate voted in favor for the invasion of Iraq.  So much for the "no small minority of voices in 2002/03 saying the Iraq invasion was wrong and based on shaky evidence and transparent reasoning."

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237


Really? I didn't know that the entire US population, to say nothing of the populations of France, Germany, Russia etc. had a seat in the US Senate. Plenty of people, yes even the majority of people in the western world warned about this, and their foresight was 20/20.

It hurts doesn't it? The French were right. So much for the "freedom fries" idiocy.

Offline Hap

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« Reply #148 on: January 14, 2007, 09:13:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by oboe
Hap, where are "the Iraqi boards"?


I don't know.  But they must exist.  Their version of us?

Regards,

hap

Offline lukster

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« Reply #149 on: January 14, 2007, 09:57:54 AM »
Many times I've read Rolex's posts and thought does anyone really buy this attempt at spin. Looks like there are indeed a few.



And btw, I'm not the one that brought the large number of wounded in Vietnam into this discussion but was only pointing out that not all of those wounded suffered serious wounds which brought to mind one very prominent case. Camel jockey is no more disparaging than redneck which is bandied about quite freely here. However, since it appears to offend the delicate and PC sensitivity of some, I'll refrain from being so calloused.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2007, 10:10:52 AM by lukster »