Author Topic: Are American posters on this BBS a minority  (Read 2103 times)

Offline lukster

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« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2007, 10:04:48 AM »
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Originally posted by Vudak
Well, VooHoo, get used to it.  With No Child Left Behind teachers are getting more and more curtailed.  Teach the test, teach the test!

Relax though, once you get to college you'll find there are some interesting professors who play by their own rules when it comes to teaching, and as it turns out, their rules work.


Blaming teaching standards for lazy unprincipled teachers is like blaming kids who are not disciplined for failing to learn to read.

Offline Vudak

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« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2007, 11:10:37 AM »
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Originally posted by lukster
Blaming teaching standards for lazy unprincipled teachers is like blaming kids who are not disciplined for failing to learn to read.


Oh I agree.  Which is why I did not do that.

I am blaming teaching standards like No Child Left Behind for making classroom's boring, which is what I took as VooHoo's major issue with school.

Call me crazy, but I subscribe to the idea that an interested kid will learn more than a bored one.

Sure, flashcards, or drilling, works great for getting someone to pass a test with a higher test score short term, but what good is it in the long run?

I can get an A on a German test by doing that and barely be able to speak what was on the test a week or so later.

I think the best thought on education came from one of my college professors...  "The whole point of a 400-level class is not to get a high grade...  The point is to learn something."

I'd argue that should be the whole point of ever level class...

It's sad that in this world we have a situation where you could get a B in a class yet really retain some key knowledge, yet an employer would be more interested in Mr. Flashcard who got an A and then forgot everything.

It MIGHT just have something to do with how so many people roll their eyes at the college educated...
Vudak
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2007, 11:39:30 AM »
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Originally posted by Skuzzy

The restaurants had to go to ICON driven registers.  What else can you do when over 30% of high school graduates have absolutely abysmal reading comprehension skills.


Or when 70% of fast food workers don't read or speak English and are totally ambivalent about learning to do so.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline VooWho

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« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2007, 11:47:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vudak
Oh I agree.  Which is why I did not do that.

I am blaming teaching standards like No Child Left Behind for making classroom's boring, which is what I took as VooHoo's major issue with school.

Call me crazy, but I subscribe to the idea that an interested kid will learn more than a bored one.

Sure, flashcards, or drilling, works great for getting someone to pass a test with a higher test score short term, but what good is it in the long run?

I can get an A on a German test by doing that and barely be able to speak what was on the test a week or so later.

I think the best thought on education came from one of my college professors...  "The whole point of a 400-level class is not to get a high grade...  The point is to learn something."

I'd argue that should be the whole point of ever level class...

It's sad that in this world we have a situation where you could get a B in a class yet really retain some key knowledge, yet an employer would be more interested in Mr. Flashcard who got an A and then forgot everything.

It MIGHT just have something to do with how so many people roll their eyes at the college educated...


Ah thank you, you've said every thing that I was trying to say. I have already forgotten things from a week ago. In my Algebra 2 class, I knew how to do Logs, then a week later, Um help.
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Offline Skuzzy

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« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2007, 12:15:32 PM »
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Originally posted by Toad
Or when 70% of fast food workers don't read or speak English and are totally ambivalent about learning to do so.
Could be related, but around our immediate area every seems to know English at the fast food places.
The only one I have run into which stuggled with English was a beautiful lady from Argentina.  And she was studying the language.  By now, she probably speaks English better than most of us who were born in the U.S.
Maybe not "better", but far more accurately.
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Offline lukster

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« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2007, 12:27:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vudak
Oh I agree.  Which is why I did not do that.

I am blaming teaching standards like No Child Left Behind for making classroom's boring, which is what I took as VooHoo's major issue with school.

Call me crazy, but I subscribe to the idea that an interested kid will learn more than a bored one.

Sure, flashcards, or drilling, works great for getting someone to pass a test with a higher test score short term, but what good is it in the long run?

I can get an A on a German test by doing that and barely be able to speak what was on the test a week or so later.

I think the best thought on education came from one of my college professors...  "The whole point of a 400-level class is not to get a high grade...  The point is to learn something."

I'd argue that should be the whole point of ever level class...

It's sad that in this world we have a situation where you could get a B in a class yet really retain some key knowledge, yet an employer would be more interested in Mr. Flashcard who got an A and then forgot everything.

It MIGHT just have something to do with how so many people roll their eyes at the college educated...


How will you know learning is taking place without testing? Reading comprehension is easy to test and cannot be faked. Same with math. Teachers complaining about standards in these areas are just plain lazy imo. The students who remember enough of subjects like history and geography a year or two later were probably taught in an interesting way. Students of those teachers who "taught the test" probably won't remember the subjects well enough to pass a test a couple of years later.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2007, 02:32:48 PM »
vudak... are you seriously saying that construction workers getting unemployment is the same thing as part time teachers getting full time pay?

Teachers always go on about how little they make a year when none of em have ever worked a whole year in their lives.

lazs

Offline Bluedog

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« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2007, 03:13:15 PM »
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I agree. Australians are stupid.

:D


He he, guess I shoulda seen that one comin' eh hori?

Offline Vudak

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« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2007, 03:39:33 PM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
vudak... are you seriously saying that construction workers getting unemployment is the same thing as part time teachers getting full time pay?

Teachers always go on about how little they make a year when none of em have ever worked a whole year in their lives.

lazs


I was talking about full-time teachers, as in September through June...  If you're talking about substitutes, then, ok we agree.

But I am seriously saying that a full-time teacher who gets two and half months off in the summer, and a construction worker who gets two and a half months off in the winter are the same in many ways, except pay, where the teacher gets the short straw.

And before people start talking about how few hours teachers work compared to construction workers...  Go talk to some teachers and see where they live compared to where they work.  Then ask them how long they're required to stay after school.  Then ask them how many hours they put in each week at home grading things and preparing for the next day.  Then ask them how pleasant it is dealing with kids who've been raised by wolves.

Saying a teacher's job doesn't deserve full pay doesn't make sense to me, but I'll admit that I'm biased, as I come from a family full of them.

And Lukster, I'm not saying "Don't test kids."  I'm saying, "Don't teach kids the test."
Vudak
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Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2007, 04:58:39 PM »
lazs...

While I agree with you about a great many things, I've gotta take exception with what you said about teaching.

And for all the sundry who still believe that teachers get paid twelve months of the year for doing only nine months work you must be incredibly thick-headed....or due a tax refund to compensate you for the failure of the public school system to properly prepare you for life in a world that requires coherent thought.

Teachers only get paid for NINE months of work.  That pay is stretched into enough payments to cover a twelve month period.   Try to grasp the concept.  The three months of "vacation" in the summer is actually a period of unemployment.  Part of that time, at least for teachers in Arkansas, must be taken up with state-mandated training amounting to two weeks of attending extremely boring and often useless "educational workshops."  Since teacher salaries are best categorized as being only fair secondary incomes for a family, many teachers spend the summer months looking for part-time employment.

I often spent my summers painting houses or doing light carpentry work to earn extra money to buy the little niceties of life that the regular monthly paycheck did not cover.

I've laid insulation, re-shingled the roofs of houses, scraped and primed and painted houses for a small pittance of what I could have earned if I had worked for a construction company because selling my services cheaply was the only way I could compete.  The one saving grace about that type of construction work was that I did not have to bring it home with me.

The last year I taught in a public school I had 107 students.  Teachers in bigger school districts have more than that.   I always took my teaching seriously, so I assigned and graded papers after each days' lesson.  Six classes a day.  I could NOT leave that work at school.  Most nights I graded papers until 10:30 or 11:00 at night.   I graded papers on Saturday and Sunday.  If I went to visit my parents I took papers with me.  If the wife and I took a trip to Little Rock to do some shopping I took papers and grade-book along.  There was little spare time that I could call my own.

Being a man, I was expected to break up, or attempt to break up, any and all fights that occurred on campus.  After one such scuffle I found I had been sprayed quite liberally with the blood of one of the combatants.  I've taken knives and num-chucks off of students.  I've parked the bus I happened to be driving on a route, set the emergency brake, got out of the vehicle, crawled under it and pulled to the safety of the curb it a first grader who had just crawled under it.

After 26 years of experience and being the proud recipient of a master's degree I had maxed out my take home pay.  I was the highest paid instructor in my school.  Maximum net take-home pay....$2,200 a month.  The wife and I and two sons and one son's fiance live in a double-wide "modular" home.  I drive a used Chevy Cavalier.  

Total amount in savings after almost 30 years of teaching....zilch....none.... nada.  

Three years ago I left the teaching profession and began drawing my retirement of $1,600 a month.  I teach full-time, year-round at a juvenile facility run by a private company.  The extra money has been a life-saver for the wife and I.  If I had not quit teaching in the public schools we quite probably would have had to declare bankruptcy.

I'm sure most of you guys work hard to earn your money.  I respect that.  So please stop spouting all those tired old cliches and myths about teachers not earning their pay...or having an easy job.

Brother, I've EARNED every cent I ever got from the profession.

Regards, Shuckins
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 05:04:03 PM by Shuckins »

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2007, 05:01:50 PM »
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Originally posted by VooWho
LOL that is funny. If you give me a map and a country I might be able to point it out, or know what part of the world its at. I'm glad in Oklahoma that we just keep spending money towards our education. I go to probably the best public school in Oklahoma and I knew probably 90% of those questions.

Where is the country of North America? Um in South America?


Owasso here.... Best schools in Oklahoma.

 :aok

Mac

Offline VooWho

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« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2007, 05:12:36 PM »
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Originally posted by AWMac
Owasso here.... Best schools in Oklahoma.

 :aok

Mac


Na Jenks is the best. Owasso is also good. Owasso sure is growing.
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Offline Brenjen

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« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2007, 05:20:35 PM »
"After one such scuffle I found I had been sprayed quite liberally with the blood of one of the combatants. I've taken knives and num-chucks off of students."


LOL, yep...you were a teacher in an Arkansas school alright. :rofl

Offline Vudak

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« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2007, 05:28:13 PM »
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Originally posted by Shuckins

Teachers only get paid for NINE months of work.  That pay is stretched into enough payments to cover a twelve month period.  



Yep.  I forgot to mention that.

Shuckins, I'll give you almost the same and thanks I'd give a guy in the military.  If you happened to work in Hartford or NYC, I'd probably give you exactly the same one :D

People don't understand what a sacrifice being a teacher really is.
Vudak
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Offline john9001

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« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2007, 05:37:41 PM »
so why aren't the schools open 12 months so the teachers can earn a 12 months salary?   "Back in the day" the kids were needed to work on the farms in the summer, now the kids are not needed to work on the farms, so why are the schools still closed in the summer?

i would think the teachers would be the first to demand that the schools be open year round, unless they like having the summers off.