Health Care Obligations

[ROC]

Ok, I'm curious as to the root of the health care responsibilities.

Now, as a business manager, I have a question to workers and management.

When does it become My responsibility to cover You medically?

Now, think about a few things here.  You get Paid, and can use your money how you wish.  Buy car insurance, health insurance, big screen TV, I don't care, as long as you perform the work you are paid for.  One might argue "It isn't enough" ok, great, get a job somewhere else.  But when, exactly, does it become my responsibility to pay for Your medical?  Am I your Father? Mother?  Grandparents?  Do I have a Say in how you ACT off of work hours?  Do I get to tell you Not to smoke? Not to Have unprotected sex? Not to Drink alchohol?  Don't eat at at McDonalds?  No, I don't, but the States keep coming up with reasons why companies Owe you some form of coverage?

Someone who has Built a business from the ground up, and have sacrificed Their income for years and years, to finally get successful, Please explain to me why I "owe" anyone Anything at all other than Pay for their Work.  

How on Earth have people become so convoluted as to think in any way, shape or form that they are Owed anything other than Pay for their work?  I, for the life of me, am at a loss here.  Granted, I see the Value of offering it to recruit good solid employees, that is a very good benefit, but tell me, prove to me somehow, that this is something Owed simply by employment.

[Sixpence]

Wow, you think you would be proud to have a business that provides health care for your workers.

Oh well, I now see why we are getting closer to government healthcare.

[Debonair]

Originally posted by ROC

unles u've bin convictd of 3 felonys, u can leave caliph0nia when u wants to
u should move 2 georga, caus OMG they have really good fresh fruit there
IM NOT JOKING
ITS GREAT:aok

[Booz]

Beats me..

   Are you the business manager or the owner?

   As you said, it's a good perk for recruiting solid workers. It's also a perk to keep the solid workers you have. So is a 401 contribution plan. Legally, I think it depends upon number of employees you manage for the owner? As the busineess manager what did the owner say? Why do you care what he forks out, not your responsibility from my point of view.

  The other option is federal health care, lasz will shoot you for voting that in.

[ROC]

Wow, you think you would be proud to have a business that provides health care for your workers.

Missed the point.   What does being Proud of offering it have to do with being Obligated to offer it?

So, sixpence, we are moving closer to government healthcare because...the Business owes it to you and doesn't want to pay it?  Why does the business OWE it?  

Booz, Im the GM of a corporation.  Mind you, I do offer good pay, prevailing wage, and great benefits.  I'm wrestling with why it's felt I OWE it to the employees, other than a benefit to keep and recruit good employees.

[Booz]

Originally posted by ROC

Booz, Im the GM of a corporation.  Mind you, I do offer good pay, prevailing wage, and great benefits.  I'm wrestling with why it's felt I OWE it to the employees, other than a benefit to keep and recruit good employees.

 From what I recall of readings YEARS ago, the entire health care idea developed in Germany somewhere in the 19aughts.. maybe the guy who was making today's Bayer aspirin, I don't remember. Big company though.  But his logic was, providing health care for employees benefitted the company in that they had happy, healthy workers who showed up more often which helped productivity..and in that day it was true.

 Today though, when a company will dump an entire division for next quarters numbers there's not much allegiance from the bottom up or the top down, and that's a shame.  Folks don't plan a career anymore, most employees are looking for a 2-5 year stint and move on, and companies don't want to maintain employees if it cost an extra buck.

 I dunno.. what's right?

   cut em all off, make up for increased sick calls by firing and hiring cheaper workers, with lower output?

  pay 'em more so they can afford to stay healthy enouh to come to work?

  pay more taxes so it's uncle sam's and lazs' headache?

  develop in house health care?

  I think the Bayer guy was onto something over a hundred years ago, but we take it's benefits for granted today, from both sides.

  I don't know where the yard-stick should lie, but it's a question of who's greed shall prevail, and that too is sad.

[john9001]

just hire "undocumented" workers, no min wage, no over time, no SS, no health care, you will make the owner rich and he will love you.

[Booz]

Until he realizes your unqualified staff is fighting an uphill battle to maintain Wal-Mart quality...and sales tank. Oh, and they call in sick 8 times a month.

[Hap]

Originally posted by ROC
Ok, I'm curious as to the root of the health care responsibilities.

Justice and mercy abide at the root.

Regards,

hap

[john9001]

Originally posted by Booz
Until he realizes your unqualified staff is fighting an uphill battle to maintain Wal-Mart quality...and sales tank. Oh, and they call in sick 8 times a month.

no, you don't understand, the owner built the business and is responsible for it's success, workers don't matter, they are just a cost item.  Ask any owner.

[Booz]

Ah! Let's fire ROC for the situation then

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Booz
From what I recall of readings YEARS ago, the entire health care idea developed in Germany somewhere in the 19aughts.. maybe the guy who was making today's Bayer aspirin, I don't remember. Big company though.  But his logic was, providing health care for employees benefitted the company in that they had happy, healthy workers who showed up more often which helped productivity..and in that day it was true.

Actually it was Otto von Bismark, who introduced several laws to improve the lot of the working class and, more important, tried battle the uprising Social Democratic Party this way.
The law concerning heatlth care was adopted in 1883 "Gesetz betreffend die Krankenversicherung der Arbeiter" = "Law regarding the workers health care insurance".

[festus]

"The myth that the United States has the best health care system in the world has long been shattered. We don't have the best health care in the world -- we have the most overpriced health care system in the world. And frankly, it's not even a health care system -- it's a disease care system."-Mike Adams. Skyrocketing Health Care Costs make U.S. Employers Non-competitive in the Global Marketplace, NewsTarget.com, Aug 8, 2004.

The history of medical insurance coverage for employees by U.S. companies began after WWII when companies were searching for employees during the boon of activity after the war. Health care coverage was considered a  benefit and was largely a success to the degree that Americans now expect to have health care insurance with employment. However, many companies are re-evaluating the issue.

In 2004 total national health expenditures rose 7.9% (3X inflation). Total spending 1.9 Trillion or $6,280 per person in the U.S./16% of the GDP. In 2006 employer health insurance premiums increased 7.7% (2X inflation) but small employers with less than 24 employees saw a 10.5%. Annual premium payed by employers for families $11,500 and singles $4,200. "The annual premiums for family coverage significantly eclipsed the gross earnings for a full-time minimum wage worker ($10,712)."-National Coalition on Health Care, The Impact of Rising Health Care Cost on the Economy Fact Sheet Series.

Now it seems to me that a buisness owner/operator can only tolerate so much incroachment of benefits on profit before there is no profit. How does the buisness keep its doors open?

What is not healthy for the economy is employer or government mandated or expected health care coverage without some cost (sacrifice) for the individual. This kills natural economic forces that keep costs in check. Frankly, this is what is driving the problems we have in health care costs now (Medicare/Medicaid/Third party payers/etc).

I think we are not healthy as a nation (obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc) due to poor lifestyle habits partly because you can eat that junk food, smoke, avoid exercise and get cheap medical care (low co-pay employer covered insurance). Well employers are sick (pun intended) of covering the bill.

Of course this is only part of the problem, but if the companies who provide the coverage for health insurance place that responibility on the consumer (employee) then I bet the outrage of health care cost will become more of a priority to address.

Employees will have to accept certain facts though. You can't expect an MRI if you had a headache this morning, or an Ultrasound of the unborn child for scrap book pictures, or for that matter an "annual" physical exam with all the bells and whistle labs without paying the cost/sacrifice.

The medical malpractice lotto mentality will also have to be addressed, and physicians should be allowed to do there job the way they are trained. Meaning not everyone with a headache needs an MRI/CT scan, etc. This means addressing the overutilization of resorces (defensive medicine). I think putting the consumer in charge of paying for health care would do some of that.

[festus]

Originally posted by Booz
pay 'em more so they can afford to stay healthy enouh to come to work?

I don't think it will work. Make them pay for their health care and they will demand reasonable health care costs by economic market forces and they will also likely think twice about smoking that cig, or eating those trans fat containing potato chips.

[festus]

Originally posted by festus
I think we are not healthy as a nation (obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc) due to poor lifestyle habits partly because you can eat that junk food, smoke, avoid exercise and get cheap medical care (low co-pay employer covered insurance).

I didn't mean to imply cheap health care by the employer, I meant the employee. The lower the cost of the individual the higher the utilization.