Spitfire

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Movie
BOTTOM LINE SPITFIRE CAN OWN JUST ABOUT ALL TYPES OF PLANES. ESPECIALLY 109 WHICH IS MY FAV TO SHOOT DOWN. DOES ANY 1 HAVE A GROUP PICTURE OF THE 71ST EAGLE SQUADRON?

You can make that statement with just about any fighter in this game.  


ack-ack

[Kweassa]

That is why 99% of the time the experienced P-38 driver will beat the average Spitfire driver.

 The above statement is not entirely correct.  According to the large consensus of people who've actually encountered such 'experienced P-38 drivers' in the MA quite frequently, this should be the full version of the above statement;

"That is why 99% of the time the experienced P-38 driver will beat the average Spitfire driver by either starting off with a 10k alt advantage, or using friendly pilots as cherrypick bait"

[Angus]

Originally posted by humble
like you said "decently fast, good acc, good turn".... like any plane its the pilot who matters most. I probalby can beat 80% of the spit XVI drivers in a 1 on 1 at any alt in a hog. Those I cant I'm not gonna beat in anything else....i'll beat em in an F6F or C-205 also....

Well flown Ki-84 will eat up a 16 so will a 38....yak totally owns it. The real key here are you fighting a duel or just lilling. The spitty will win a "duel" but if you take away the "dueling rules" the spitty wont see anything after the "merge".

Now obviously pilot skill is the big variable, a real good spit driver will get a few overshoots. The hispano's certainly can reach out and touch you...but thats only way the spitty wins...

From beginning to end, boulderdash and rubbish!

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Kweassa
The above statement should be rephrased:

"That is why 99% of the time the experienced P-38 driver will beat the average Spitfire driver by starting off with a 10k alt advantage"

 This, is correct.

Nope, no alt advantage needed.  A good, experienced P-38 driver will the majority of the time against an average pilot, no matter what the average pilot is flying.   The experienced pilot is going to know what to in various situations and maneuver accordingly to get the angle, the average pilot will most likely not and will die as a result.

The same can be said of a good, experienced Spitfire pilot against an average P-38 pilot.  

ack-ack

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Movie
DOES ANY 1 HAVE A GROUP PICTURE OF THE 71ST EAGLE SQUADRON?

YES!!!!!   Why are you yelling?

[straffo]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Right you are!  The difference is that you're not going to see a server full of P-38s like you do Spitfires.  Even when the planeset is pretty much tailored to American ships, the P-38 comprises a very low percentage of the ships flown (as it should).

Straffo, an airplane can make up for pilot skill.  The best pilot in the world, flying a P-47, won't ever touch your average F-15 pilot.  That's a really extreme example, of course, but it's true.  Unless the Spitfire pilot really don't know his stuff, it doesn't matter how good the P-38 pilot is.  He's going to lose.  If you don't believe me, we can arrange a duel in my server.  It's pretty much lag-free and people respect the duel in there.  I'll fly Spitfire Mark XIV (which I've never flown before) and you can fly the P-38.  You will lose.

With a broke (again ) rotator cuff I won't be able to fly in your server neither in the MA

Plus I'm far from a superior pilot , now if Ack-Ack or Murdr want to drop in your  arena I think you will learn something about superior pilot in inferior plane.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Kweassa
The above statement is not entirely correct.  According to the large consensus of people who've actually encountered such 'experienced P-38 drivers' in the MA quite frequently, this should be the full version of the above statement;

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"That is why 99% of the time the experienced P-38 driver will beat the average Spitfire driver by either starting off with a 10k alt advantage, or using friendly pilots as cherrypick bait"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now you have to understand that I'm a longtime Spit historian, with my focus being the guys who flew the XII.  It's ingrained in me their operating procedure, which was to fly below the 109s and 190s hoping they came down.

I do this with my 38G all the time and hope the Spit drivers come down.  I wait for em to come down from behind, time the break, roll back their direction and hope that they'll turn back in.

All the 38 drivers i fly with are of the same mentality, that alt is just time consuming.  We'd rather fight from a disadvantage then waste time getting alt to the fight.

Does it mean I've never bounced anyone?  Nah.  But I like it when the other guy is coming  down to try and pick me.  Beating him, is much more satisfying.

And unless flown by an experienced Spit driver, I feel like I can handle any Spit in my 38G.  But I can also tell within the first turn or two whether or not I'm on trouble.  90% of the time its not an experience Spit driver.

That being said, if I get in a Spit I feel the same way.  I prefer the VIII though.

[humble]

Originally posted by Angus
From beginning to end, boulderdash and rubbish!

More then happy to put it to the test.......

[humble]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Now you have to understand that I'm a longtime Spit historian, with my focus being the guys who flew the XII.  It's ingrained in me their operating procedure, which was to fly below the 109s and 190s hoping they came down.

I do this with my 38G all the time and hope the Spit drivers come down.  I wait for em to come down from behind, time the break, roll back their direction and hope that they'll turn back in.

All the 38 drivers i fly with are of the same mentality, that alt is just time consuming.  We'd rather fight from a disadvantage then waste time getting alt to the fight.

Does it mean I've never bounced anyone?  Nah.  But I like it when the other guy is coming  down to try and pick me.  Beating him, is much more satisfying.

And unless flown by an experienced Spit driver, I feel like I can handle any Spit in my 38G.  But I can also tell within the first turn or two whether or not I'm on trouble.  90% of the time its not an experience Spit driver.

That being said, if I get in a Spit I feel the same way.  I prefer the VIII though.

I think the underlying reality is that speed is the spitties biggest problem. 90% of all spit drivers keep to much E...your not gonna out run the other guys guns. all that speed, climb and acceleration is useless to most spit drivers. What they cant do is slow the darn thing down enough to for anything else to matter.

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by straffo
now if Ack-Ack or Murdr want to drop in your  arena I think you will learn something about superior pilot in inferior plane.

They both have, and both beat me repeatedly in fair fights.  However, it was often close enough that I feel confident that I could beat at least one of them if I were flying a Spitfire Mark XIV.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by humble
like you said "decently fast, good acc, good turn".... like any plane its the pilot who matters most. I probalby can beat 80% of the spit XVI drivers in a 1 on 1 at any alt in a hog. Those I cant I'm not gonna beat in anything else....i'll beat em in an F6F or C-205 also....

Well flown Ki-84 will eat up a 16 so will a 38....yak totally owns it. The real key here are you fighting a duel or just lilling. The spitty will win a "duel" but if you take away the "dueling rules" the spitty wont see anything after the "merge".

Now obviously pilot skill is the big variable, a real good spit driver will get a few overshoots. The hispano's certainly can reach out and touch you...but thats only way the spitty wins...

I'm afraid I have to disagree with several things. A Spit16 EASILY out-classes a Yak-9U in everything but max speed. It turns smaller circles, much smaller. In terms of acceleration, the Yak is waaay behind. Ditto for sustained climb. Roll rate is a gimmie for the Spit. The Spit decelerates faster than the Yak as well (it's been tested).

"but if you take away the "dueling rules" the spitty wont see anything after the "merge." That's because the smart Yak driver is already headed to a different sector.... Maybe even a different map if the Spitfire was a Mk.VIII.

My regards,

Widewing

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Widewing
I'm afraid I have to disagree with several things. A Spit16 EASILY out-classes a Yak-9U in everything but max speed. It turns smaller circles, much smaller. In terms of acceleration, the Yak is waaay behind. Ditto for sustained climb. Roll rate is a gimmie for the Spit. The Spit decelerates faster than the Yak as well (it's been tested).

"but if you take away the "dueling rules" the spitty wont see anything after the "merge." That's because the smart Yak driver is already headed to a different sector.... Maybe even a different map if the Spitfire was a Mk.VIII.

My regards,

Widewing

Heh.

Humble, you're just a very good pilot, and probably most of the Spit pilots you meet aren't as good as you.  

This thread started out with the honest question of why the Spit is viewed by many (obviously not by the Spit Mafia!) as a dweeb plane.  I asked that question myself back in 1996 - wish I could remember who the guy was who gave me the answer.  To most of us, the Spit gives the modestly competent pilot a huge advantage over any other modestly competent pilot - and that's why it got the reputation.

Or at least, so it seems to me.

- oldman

[humble]

MarkVIII a much tougher nut then the XVI IMO. WW I dont fly the yak much so I might be mistaken. Last time I flew it was when a guy asked how you fight a spit16 in one {except for a hop earlier today}. If I recall my answer was "carefully" but with the understanding the yak controls the fight. I think the operative comment in the original statement was the "80%". I run into very few decent...let alone really good spitXVI drivers. Obviously there are some...as a general rule I engage any spit (especially the 16) at any alt under any initial E state in any plane. While I get my leg chewed off from time to time the vast majority of the time the spitty isnt flown to the optimum. I'm much more wary of Ki-84's, C-205s, F6F's and assorted 109's....

Looking at the gonzoville charts I cant disagree with you...but the 16 has the same advantage vs the F6F.

[humble]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh.

Humble, you're just a very good pilot, and probably most of the Spit pilots you meet aren't as good as you.  

This thread started out with the honest question of why the Spit is viewed by many (obviously not by the Spit Mafia!) as a dweeb plane.  I asked that question myself back in 1996 - wish I could remember who the guy was who gave me the answer.  To most of us, the Spit gives the modestly competent pilot a huge advantage over any other modestly competent pilot - and that's why it got the reputation.

Or at least, so it seems to me.

- oldman

I dont see myself as anything but "above average". There are easily 100 guys I cant touch. i'm pretty good across the board in that I can fly a 205/109/Ki-61 etc against any plane is set and make the other guy use his plane to its potential to beat me. But I've had plenty of good fightsd and been toasted as well by many guys (you included:)). I have a tough time ever saying "so and so" beat me because he was in a spit. 90% of the time he beat me because he did something right....or I did something wrong...or both.

Now if we fly a 5 minute fight and somebody sucks that least bit of E out of me and stomps me into the weeds then I just go wow....what a great E fight. but I know that in the end I simply ran out of plane. So the question then becomes what could i have changed earlier to avoid that.

The german flyer in 1943 fighting a spitXIV in his g6 didnt get to call the other guy a dweeb....he figured it out or he rode home in a pine box. I guess I just feel that if the other guy is relying on his plane to do his killing he's giving up his greatest potential advantage....himself.

[BaldEagl]

I don't get where you P-38 guys have been flying.  I've rarely found a P-38 that stood any knid of chance against me in a Spit XVI and guess where I almost always beat them... in the vertical!  The P-38 has no where near the climb rate of a Spit XVI and if you take them into a spiral climb they are toast.

The only explanation that I can come up with for that statement is that the P-38 can pull a tighter turn with flaps at the top of a wing-over but thats it.