Author Topic: Harley Davidson on Strike (Read 1419 times)

LePaul · « **on:** February 02, 2007, 04:30:54 PM »

I was really expecting to read about some outrageous demands the union wanted, since the company is doing well. But it boils down to this...

The company said its proposal included annual wage increases of 4 percent over three years. But part of the increase depended on the union agreeing to contribute toward health insurance coverage. Unionized employees currently pay no premium. It also would have doubled the company's 401(k) retirement plan contributions.

Oh. my. God. What a cruel company, how dare an employee have to...eek..contribute...to their health care!

Full article here

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2007, 04:43:24 PM »

Good, maybe it'll drive the value of my 84 FLHTC through the roof.

storch · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:33:06 PM »

unions are a pariah, they need to go.

Maverick · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:35:15 PM »

I heard they were being outsourced to China.........

RTR · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:40:34 PM »

I heard China was being outsourced to India

RTR

Toad · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:41:59 PM »

You guys can beech all you like but I'll (again) point out the obvious.

1. Before there were Unions, there was incredibly BAD management. Bad management gave rise to Unions, bad management will eventually swing the pendulum back towards more unionization.

The pendulum is always moving between Unions and Management. Right now, it's swinging towards management. Eventually, Management will go so far out into left field that they themselves will force the pendulum to swing back. CEO salaries 500 times the lowest paid worker stuff will help reverse it.

2. It was the Unions that created the middle class in this country. Right now, the middle class is being destroyed along with the unions. Check your history books and see what happens to societies with no middle class, just an incredibly wealthy small upper class and a poor, huge lower class.

You may return to your anti-union rants with my blessing.

Oh...one last truism.... the only thing WORSE than a Union is....No Union.

DiabloTX · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:46:56 PM »

Unions CAN be a good thing.

It's what they've become that's the issue.

AquaShrimp · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:50:18 PM »

Unions take the blame for alot of stuff. Here in Louisville, KY, where we have two Ford plants, I'm constantly hearing "The United Auto Workers union is causing Ford to overprice their vehicles, and is going to cause the downfall of the company".

If a company follows American principles by staying ahead of the competition technologically, then it will have no problem paying its workers a decent wage.

The *real* problem lies with engineers, designers, and company executives. In that they have not kept up with foreign auto makers.

As for Harley, who knows? Maybe all the baby-boomers who were buying bikes got too old to ride.

Gunthr · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:55:24 PM »

Quote

Oh...one last truism.... the only thing WORSE than a Union is....No Union. Toad

That depends... look at the US auto industry. Unions are a factor in their crash and burn. It isn't as simple as reducing Unions to a truism. Every union is different.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:49:02 PM »

Unions and management are equally guilty. The companies are numerically top heavy, and most of the dead weight up at the top is also the source of poor decisions, besides there being too many of them. However, the unions have demanded too much for too little as well. Like anything else, it isn't one side, it's both sides. Both sides are full of greed, corruption, and malfeasance. The manufacturers can not afford management OR unions, and they have both. They've done it to themselves, all of them.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2007, 09:52:20 PM »

Why would anybody buy a Harley anyway - plus motorcycles are dangeous.

I just dont see the point of this story.

Mark Luper · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2007, 10:06:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Why would anybody buy a Harley anyway - plus motorcycles are dangeous.

I just dont see the point of this story.

That sure was stinky bait there Grunherz.

Mark

oboe · « **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2007, 10:27:24 PM »

~~Toad and Savage. Ain't it the truth.~~

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2007, 10:42:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Unions take the blame for alot of stuff. Here in Louisville, KY, where we have two Ford plants, I'm constantly hearing "The United Auto Workers union is causing Ford to overprice their vehicles, and is going to cause the downfall of the company".

If a company follows American principles by staying ahead of the competition technologically, then it will have no problem paying its workers a decent wage.

The *real* problem lies with engineers, designers, and company executives. In that they have not kept up with foreign auto makers.

As for Harley, who knows? Maybe all the baby-boomers who were buying bikes got too old to ride.

No, the problem is the unions. It doesn't have anything to do with decent wage. The unions are parasytic vampires which enforce bogus programs that cost the US Auto Companies BILLIONS. That's billion, as in 1,000 million. The US Auto companies would INSTANTLY be 2x more competetive if they immediately trim off the Union and the bogus Union programs. If they trimmed it off (and by trim, I mean smash in the face with a sledgehammer), they could sell cars for half as much and still make a profit, as well as put their own money into research and development and make cars way better then the Japs could ever dream of.

To those union lackees, that does NOT mean pay the workers bad wages. But for example, right now there are thousands of workers who sit in a cafeteria and earn a salary. Because of the Union, they sit there and get paid to do nothing.

But they won't. The Unions will continue to suck the Auto Companies dry, until the companies collapse on themselves. And instead of letting the crash happen and letting capitalism take over, the US Government WILL bail them out and the cycle will start over again.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #14 on:** February 02, 2007, 10:49:17 PM »

I used to belong to a union, Teamster's local 480. While the union did some good things for us, we got good wages, and we had reasonable breaks, there was so much abuse that went on it was sickening. It eventually killed one company I worked for, and that cost my parents their farm, as my Dad worked for the same company, and we both lost jobs.

I watched the IBEW take the GE plant here from 1600 workers and the best benefits in the area down to the point where it closed 3 months ago. GE actually had better benefits than Nissan, and the compensation package exceeded what Nissan paid here. The union came in, and a plant that had not missed a delivery in 35 years couldn't deliver on time on a bet. Sure, management went to crap too, and in the end they were as bad as the union, but the union started the slide.

Eventually, UAW will kill the Peterbilt plant here too. I'm really surprised they haven't already. They cost Peterbilt millions when they went on strike a few years ago. I was working for a tier one supplier of PACCAR, the company that owns Peterbilt. We were working a solid 65 hours a week making killer money keeping the supply up, because Peterbilt was swamped with orders, and had a SIX MONTH back log. The UAW went on strike over a small increase in benefits, and by the time the strike ended 7 months later, all the orders were cancelled, and diesel went up, so it never really recovered. The Peterbilt employees went back 2 weeks before Christmas for a cut in pay AND in benefits. The union employees got 1st shift back, then went on strike a year later because of the non union employees on 2nd shift.

But then you have poor management that makes everything worse. The tier one supplier I worked for was so poorly managed that they wasted enough to double the wages of every employee on the floor with ease. Management is now filled with idiots with MBA's that have no idea about reality in business. With engineers who have no idea how things actually work. And with short sided accountants who can only see the per part cost of production as they can generate it with book figures that have no basis in reality at all.

Common sense has left BOTH sides, and neither shows signs of finding it again.

Author Topic: Harley Davidson on Strike (Read 1419 times)

storch