Obama and the patriot act..

[WhiteHawk]

Lets say, Obama becomes president.  Lets say, he has total access to the powers of the patriot act, warrentless spying and indefinate incarcaration without representation, and all the other goodies Bush has deemed necessary to run a free country.  Everybody comfortable with this?  Or is this why our founding fathers made the rules that they made?

[storch]

allow me to acquaint with the power of executive order.  the president at his discreation can order just about anything he so pleases.  that would include suspension of the writ of habeus corpus as well as the indefinite internment of American citizens.  both of these act have precedent.

[john9001]

Obama said he will unite the country just like Lincoln did. Looks like a long civil war coming.

[Pei]

Originally posted by storch
allow me to acquaint with the power of executive order.  the president at his discreation can order just about anything he so pleases.  that would include suspension of the writ of habeus corpus as well as the indefinite internment of American citizens.  both of these act have precedent.

And this is a good because?

[storch]

who said it was good?  but I sure am glad we have a second amendment.

[Hornet33]

Originally posted by storch
who said it was good?  but I sure am glad we have a second amendment.

And that's excactly why the second is there. Went to the local gun show today and exercised my right by purchasing a new weapon. Bushmaster M4A3, 7 spare 30rd mags, tactical sling and carry case, ACOG sight, and a nifty little mount for my SureFire flashlight.

Also picked up a new replacement barrel for my Taurus PT99 9mm pistol. I've put so many rounds through that one the rifling was starting to look a little beat up so for $80 I figured why not replace it. Have to take it to the range on Monday and make sure the headspace is correct but I don't forsee any problems. Seems to fit like a champ.

[E25280]

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Lets say, Obama becomes president.  Lets say, he has total access to the powers of the patriot act, warrentless spying and indefinate incarcaration without representation, and all the other goodies Bush has deemed necessary to run a free country.  Everybody comfortable with this?  Or is this why our founding fathers made the rules that they made?

1)  I fear nothing in the PATRIOT Act regardless of who is at the helm.

2)  We never needed a warrant for spying on a foreign power.  Still don't.

3)  As a US Citizen not involved in hostilities against the US, the chances of me or anyone like me being "incarcerated without representation" are nil.

4)  These are not "Bush goodies" as you like to call them.  PATRIOT was written into law by the congress.  The rest are, to my understanding, powers given to the executive by the founders as written into the constitution.

So, what is your beef with Obama?

[hardtack]

The story of a U.S. citizen wrongly detained in Iraq

The detainee was Donald Vance, a 29-year-old Navy veteran from Chicago who went to Iraq as a security contractor. He wound up as a whistle-blower, passing information to the F.B.I. about suspicious activities at the Iraqi security firm where he worked, including what he said was possible illegal weapons trading.

But when American soldiers raided the company at his urging, Mr. Vance and another American who worked there were detained as suspects by the military, which was unaware that Mr. Vance was an informer, according to officials and military documents.

No beef with Obama here.   He seems intelligent and reasonable.

[dmf]

If Obama gets to be president he'll screw up everything the president's before him did, just like every US President has done with the exception of George Washington.

The only reason George Washington didn't screw up what teh president before him did is that there was no president before him, otherwise he'd have screwed it up.

Therefore I fear nothing Obama could do as president, the Patriot act doesn't even apply to most of us anyway, so stop worrying about it.

[Dago]

Better Obama than Hillary.  That ***** is just plain evil.  She will get votes from the just plain stupid.  She will use her power in a nasty negative way, just as she behaved out of the public eye during the embarrassing Clinton years.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by john9001
Obama said he will unite the country just like Lincoln did. Looks like a long civil war coming.

Oh its been comming anyway.
All thats really needed is a proper triggering mechanism

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by dmf

Therefore I fear nothing Obama could do as president, the Patriot act doesn't even apply to most of us anyway, so stop worrying about it.

Obama is neither here nor there to me.

I do however object to the Patriot act.
We never needed it to begin with.
All they really needed to do in the first place was enforce laws already in place.

The problem with "it doesnt apply to us anyway" is these things once enacted tend to expand .

That is. Well if we can use it for this. Then why not include that. And the general public. being the sheep they are. Just go along with it. That is. Until it is applied to them.
But by then its too late.
(and yes we are mere sheep or we wouldnt just keep voting for the same two looser groups into office)

Remember the oath to defend against all enemies both foreign and "DOMESTIC"
Domestic is us.

About the only thing I can agree with in post 9/11 is the linking of agencies to better be able to communicate with each other to share legally obtained information.
Which is something that should have been happening all along anyway.

Beyond that. I am dead set against the Patriot act. And see it as something hastily passed in a fit of paranoia.

What is needed is a president who would overturn the patriot act and replace it with something more in line with the Consitution.

As it stands now. We are borderline on the brink of McCarthyism

[lazs2]

whitehawk..  I don't know about osama bama or the patriot act but you have hit on something that I agree with...

No matter how great you think your guy is and how just he is and can be trusted with your freedom... you end up giving that power to the enemy.

and yes... I believe the country now is at odds with two sides...  osama bama belongs to the enemy side.   His visions of lincoln are not that far off... lincoln did the most to destroy states rights...  lincoln was the inventor orf the carpet bagger and the father of jim crow laws.   I believe that osama bama is every bit as capable of the destruction and grief lincoln caused...

lazs

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Dago
Better Obama than Hillary.  That ***** is just plain evil.  She will get votes from the just plain stupid.  She will use her power in a nasty negative way, just as she behaved out of the public eye during the embarrassing Clinton years.

I would tend to agree.
I think Hillary would be every bit as bad for the country as a whole as Bush has been.

But like I said. the people are mere sheep.

Classic example.
I have two friends. One is a die hard Republican. One is a diehard Democrat.
I tried a little experiment
First I asked the Democrat friend

"Ok you claim your not brain dead. Then answer me this.
Name 3 Democratic Presidents that were bad. and 3 Republican presidents that were good?"

I posed the same question. the same way to my republican friend only vise verse.

Neither could do it.


Like I said.."Sheep"
Bahhhhhh

[bsdaddict]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
What is needed is a president who would overturn the patriot act and replace it with something more in line with the Consitution.

I've mentioned this before but noone seemed to notice.  anyhoo, Ron Paul is running.  He's an R, but I'll vote for him if he makes it past the primary.  Ron Paul ("Dr. No" to some, 'cause he votes "no" so often) would undo a lot of damage, IMHO.  He's got principles (the Constitution is #1 concern to him) and he stands by them, which is a quality sorely lacking in Washington these days...

http://www.house.gov/paul/index.shtml

http://ronpaulforcongress.com/   (still in "exploratory phase" for POTUS in'08)