Author Topic: The Mall Shooter was....  (Read 2828 times)

Offline john9001

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The Mall Shooter was....
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2007, 11:48:38 AM »
he was a enviro-terrorist, scientists agree the malls contribute to global warming with their acres of black asphalt reflecting the heat back into the atmosphere. Also people driving around and around the lots dumping CO2  looking for a parking place a little closer to the entrance.
 He was just trying to save the earth by shutting down the mall.

Offline Bronk

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« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2007, 11:50:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
To you maybe Steve.  Not to the people who actually come up with the definitions.  Tell you what, I've just spent a few minutes trying to find a definition of terrorism that does not mention "politics" or acts of violence against the "state".

Find me one and I will happily step down.

IPlease don't try and paint me as a terorist supporter, a musilm symapthist or whatever...I'm not.   I just think your definition is wrong.


I'd define Columbine as a terrorist attack.

What state were they attacking?


Bronk

Edit: Other than their preconceived "state" of the status quo in school.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 11:53:23 AM by Bronk »
See Rule #4

Offline Donzo

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The Mall Shooter was....
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2007, 12:00:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
To you maybe Steve.  Not to the people who actually come up with the definitions.  Tell you what, I've just spent a few minutes trying to find a definition of terrorism that does not mention "politics" or acts of violence against the "state".

Find me one and I will happily step down.

IPlease don't try and paint me as a terorist supporter, a musilm symapthist or whatever...I'm not.   I just think your definition is wrong.


From Webster Online:

Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

Main Entry: ter·ror
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r, 'te-r&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French terrour, from Latin terror, from terrEre to frighten; akin to Greek trein to be afraid, flee, tremein to tremble -- more at TREMBLE
1 : a state of intense fear
2 a : one that inspires fear : SCOURGE b : a frightening aspect c : a cause of anxiety : WORRY d : an appalling person or thing; especially : BRAT
3 : REIGN OF TERROR
4 : violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands


While the #4 definition terror mentions government, #'s 1, 2, and 3 do not.  This means that it can mean any of these things, not all.

So yes, using terror (a state of intense fear) is terrorism.  Walking into a mall and randomly shooting people instills intense fear in others.  So this IS an act of terrorism.

Offline Curval

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The Mall Shooter was....
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2007, 12:00:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
I'd define Columbine as a terrorist attack.


You well might, as would Steve...but you would be wrong, according to the dictionary definitions I have seen.  Show me one that says otherwise.
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Offline Bronk

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« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2007, 12:05:39 PM »
See the post above yours.


Bronk
See Rule #4

Offline Curval

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« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2007, 12:08:11 PM »
Websters initial definition prefaces all of its later definaitions with one sentence:

the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion


It must be SYSTEMATIC.

The guys who killed the kids at Columbine did so in one act.

The guy in the mall was one guy committing one act.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Guppy35

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The Mall Shooter was....
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2007, 12:09:20 PM »
I don't remember ever hearing the religious background of the Columbine shooters either.......

Nice to see that old Dick and Spiro's plan has finally come to fruition all these years later:noid
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Offline Curval

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« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2007, 12:11:44 PM »
FBI definition (the one that REALLY counts):

Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Donzo

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« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2007, 12:14:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
Websters initial definition prefaces all of its later definaitions with one sentence:

the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion


It must be SYSTEMATIC.

The guys who killed the kids at Columbine did so in one act.

The guy in the mall was one guy committing one act.


So using this logic you would say that the World Trade Center bombing in '93 was one act and therefore not terrorism?

Offline Bronk

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« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2007, 12:18:02 PM »
Short memories.
If you remember after that they was a lot of flap about bullying in schools.
So much so that IIRC there were more than a few no tolerance policies adopted.

So the Columbine incident did in fact effect policies of the schools. (although unintentional)


I have no idea what the mall shooters motivations were.
I'm just saying a terrorist act does not have to be political or against  the state.


Bronk

Edit: badly worded and redone
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 12:20:36 PM by Bronk »
See Rule #4

Offline eskimo2

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The Mall Shooter was....
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2007, 12:20:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
From Webster Online:

Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

Main Entry: ter·ror
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r, 'te-r&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French terrour, from Latin terror, from terrEre to frighten; akin to Greek trein to be afraid, flee, tremein to tremble -- more at TREMBLE
1 : a state of intense fear
2 a : one that inspires fear : SCOURGE b : a frightening aspect c : a cause of anxiety : WORRY d : an appalling person or thing; especially : BRAT
3 : REIGN OF TERROR
4 : violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands


While the #4 definition terror mentions government, #'s 1, 2, and 3 do not.  This means that it can mean any of these things, not all.

So yes, using terror (a state of intense fear) is terrorism.  Walking into a mall and randomly shooting people instills intense fear in others.  So this IS an act of terrorism.


I don’t know.  Just because the root word of terrorism is terror, all definitions of terror do not necessarily imply terrorism.  A hawk may impose a state of intense fear upon a rabbit by hunting him, but that does not make hunting “terrorism’.  It’s all going to come down to the kid’s motives IMO.  If the kid had any kind of anti American/pro Islam political agenda, I’d say he’s a terrorist.  If he was just a nut-bag loser who was upset about not fitting in, I’d say he’s just a nut-bag loser.

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2007, 12:21:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
So using this logic you would say that the World Trade Center bombing in '93 was one act and therefore not terrorism?


One act from a group that tried again!

Offline kamilyun

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The Mall Shooter was....
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2007, 12:22:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
FBI definition (the one that REALLY counts):

Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.


By this definition, our founding fathers were terrorists :lol

Boston Teaparty = terrorist act :lol

Offline Donzo

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« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2007, 12:23:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
One act from a group that tried again!


Yes, of course.  But at the time (in '93) would Curval not have considered this an act of terrorism?

Offline Curval

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« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2007, 12:27:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
Yes, of course.  But at the time (in '93) would Curval not have considered this an act of terrorism?


That bombing was planned by a group of conspirators including Ramzi Yousef, Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, El Sayyid Nosair, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Ahmad Ajaj, and Abdul Rahman Yasin. They received financing from al-Qaeda member Khaled Shaikh Mohammed, Yousef's uncle.

According to the journalist Steve Coll, Yousef mailed letters to various New York newspapers just before the attack, in which he claimed he belonged to the 'Liberation Army, Fifth Battalion'. These letters made three demands: an end to all US aid to Israel, an end to US diplomatic relations with Israel, and a demand for a pledge by the United States to end interference "with any of the Middle East countries [sic] interior affairs." He stated that the attack on the World Trade Center would be merely the first of such attacks if his demands were not met. In his letters Yousef admitted that the World Trade Center bombing was an act of terrorism, but that this was justified because 'the terrorism that Israel practices (which America supports) must be faced with a similar one.'
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain