Author Topic: Piracy: A general discussion (Read 6908 times)

Krusty · « **Reply #30 on:** February 14, 2007, 01:49:19 PM »

MiniD, you should know by now the one thing that sells anything: bullsh**.

The reason people are buying into Vista is bullsh**. Even some reviewers were getting annoyed at the anal smoke insertion MS reps were giving them.

Starforce was only adopted because they told lies to interest folks "Use our stuff or you'll lose ALL your money!!! GASP!"

I don't think you've got a very objective outlook on the matter. Just because it's USED or IMPLEMENTED doesn't make it worthy of being used. It just means some company somewhere got a proverbial BJ or cutback for using it.

Nobody, anywhere, would use Vista unless MS forces them to be removing all older windows versions and forcing it to be installed on all new hardware across the planet. Gee, guess what? MS is doing that now, so Vista will be used. Doesn't mean its use validates its existence.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #31 on:** February 14, 2007, 02:08:31 PM »

Like many things, it (DRM/HDCP) was/is perceived to be a solution to piracy, but in fact, it isn't. DES was supposed to prevent piracy on DVD's and it didn't. AACS was supposed to be unbreakable and got broken faster than DES did. I cannot really think of any anti-piracy effort which has prevented piracy. Can you?
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Apple reported there is a significant slow down on DRM enabled music sales in iTunes versus non DRM enabled music. And due to this, they will be dropping DRM enabled music from thier lists, in the near future. They are trying to get the providers of the DRM enabled tunes to drop the DRM.

I caught that on the news this morning.

Of course, it probably does not help when .Steve Jobs is being very vocal about leading an anti-DRM movement. I wish him well with that effort and have offered to help as well.

And if you are not one to read what Mr. Jobs has to say, "Why would the big four music companies agree to let Apple and others distribute their music without using DRM systems to protect it? The simplest answer is because DRMs haven’t worked, and may never work, to halt music piracy. ", is just a bit from that.
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Here is what Starforce and things of that nature will do for a company. As a consumer, I will no longer buy any Sony manufactured media which I may put into my computer ROM drive. I know others who feel the same way.

I will no longer buy any game which has Starforce on it. I know others who feel the same way.
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All these attempts to prevent piracy are failing miserably. I have always paid for my media. Always. But, I would consider grabbing a pirated copy of HD content, if I ever bought any which had ICT enabled on it. Or I would hack my own copy to remove ICT.

But instead, I am boycotting HD content in its entirety. I will not buy any hardware which has HDCP hardware installed either. In the overall scheme of things, it will not matter, but I really do not care as it does matter to me

Kev367th · « **Reply #32 on:** February 14, 2007, 02:09:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
I've never met a more obtuse group in my life.

WHY DID THEY ADOPT IT!?! WHAT WAS THE MARKETING THAT MADE THEM ADOPT IT!?! WHAT MARKETING MADE THEM CHOSE (not be forced) TO BUY AN ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT PACKAGE AND ADD DESIGN OVERHEAD TO THEIR PRODUCT!?!

PS... none of those links show a slow in DRM sales.

I guess Ubisoft thought it was a good idea at the time to use Starforce.

Coutnless complaints and a class action lawsuit made them see sense.
They are even releasing patches for games previously distributed with Starforce 'drivers' to remove them.

Many other companies that previously used Starforce have gone the same route.

Interesting read on Vista and DRM -

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/%7Epgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

[edit] Is there a video card out there that is 100% HD content compliant?
Wasn't ATI subject to a lawsuit after claiming theirs were, but turned out not to be?

100% with Skuzzy on this one - All Vista and DRM does is inconvenience your average user to try and stop Pirates who will find a way round it anyway.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #33 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:25:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
How about answering this simple question:

How do you prevent DvDs, CDs and such from being freely distributed over the internet?

I have purchased the following:

Entire Pink Floyd catalog (over 70+)
Entire Queen catalog
Entire Beatles catalog
Entire Zeppelin catalog
Entire Classic Elton John catalog

Roughly $2,000 worth of CD's purchased because of tapes copied from my oldest brother's Vinyl Collection.

I'm sure if they were to be told this, they'd thank me.

BTW, I have 76GB of mp3's and not ONE gets shared.

Masherbrum · « **Reply #34 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:36:50 PM »

I also will not go into the last 50+ CD's I've purchased after listening "to pirated" albums from Torrents.

They'll complain too about piracy, I negated their argument. Again, they'd thank me.

LePaul · « **Reply #35 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:52:48 PM »

I may be an R2-D2 Building Geek.

But confessing to owning the entire Elton John catalog? Brave!

Irwink! · « **Reply #36 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:41:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LePaul
I may be an R2-D2 Building Geek.

But confessing to owning the entire Elton John catalog? Brave!

Masherbrum · « **Reply #37 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:46:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LePaul
I may be an R2-D2 Building Geek.

But confessing to owning the entire Elton John catalog? Brave!

No, from his first to Rock of the Westies. The rest of his stuff is garbage.

NOT · « **Reply #38 on:** February 14, 2007, 08:27:24 PM »

MiniD, are you Bill Gates personal secretary or what? Or maybe his brother, or cousin?

One thing im worried about is how Vista will effect solitaire. Because if i cant play solitaire, then ill never go to Vista.

Irwink! · « **Reply #39 on:** February 14, 2007, 08:46:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BMnot
MiniD, are you Bill Gates personal secretary or what? Or maybe his brother, or cousin?

One thing im worried about is how Vista will effect solitaire. Because if i cant play solitaire, then ill never go to Vista.

Vista solitaire, you may be pleased to know, works very well. No bugs -er anomalies noted yet.

Mini D · « **Reply #40 on:** February 14, 2007, 11:43:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
I guess Ubisoft thought it was a good idea at the time to use Starforce.

Why? What would make them take on the extra expense and overhead? Krusty obviously isn't willing to answer this one. Skuzzy has already said no developer would do it. Why did Ubisoft decide to go with it?

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #41 on:** February 15, 2007, 04:14:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
I've never met a more obtuse group in my life.

WHY DID THEY ADOPT IT!?! WHAT WAS THE MARKETING THAT MADE THEM ADOPT IT!?! WHAT MARKETING MADE THEM CHOSE (not be forced) TO BUY AN ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT PACKAGE AND ADD DESIGN OVERHEAD TO THEIR PRODUCT!?!

PS... none of those links show a slow in DRM sales.

Let me clarify: Slow down in DRM restricted media sales. The providers are seeing a trend there and are getting rid of the DRM simply because consumers won't buy the crap.

MrRiplEy[H] · « **Reply #42 on:** February 15, 2007, 04:20:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
Why? What would make them take on the extra expense and overhead? Krusty obviously isn't willing to answer this one. Skuzzy has already said no developer would do it. Why did Ubisoft decide to go with it?

Why? Because they obviously wanted to protect their product from illegal copying. And they believed the marketing Starforce gave them. Believed up to the extent that they secretly installed Starforce even with a game DEMO on a victims computer.

Which later on lead to bluescreens on starforce version conflict on actual game and demo etc. small things.

No biggie, just bluescreen and corrupt OS installation because of non-functional DRM. No biggie at all.

In the end, starforce was cracked before the boxes were shipped to furthest retail places and consumers got only problems as a result.

Guess what: Ubisoft shot itself in the leg bigtime with the move. It never sold a single copy more because of the product but what it did was get sued and lose a buttload of previous customers after their hardware got porked through SF.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #43 on:** February 15, 2007, 07:16:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
Why? What would make them take on the extra expense and overhead? Krusty obviously isn't willing to answer this one. Skuzzy has already said no developer would do it. Why did Ubisoft decide to go with it?

What did I mention a developer would not do as it pertains to Starforce? If you are talking about copy-protection, I cannot find where I made any particular comment about it. I may have, but I cannot find it.

On game protection; The market has shown it will not tolerate intrusive means of protection. Starforce is a shining example of intrusive protection and one that truly hurt Ubisoft's bottomline.

Every developer who has tried any type of copy protection mechanism ends up dumping it. The cost of the protection is simply too high, in terms of licensing it, and lost sales due to it. Most companies have discovered none of the copy protection schemes actually do anything to stop piracy.

Quite the opposite actually. When something is put out as copy protected it gets pirated even faster. It seems pirates see copy protection as an oppertunity.

Krusty · « **Reply #44 on:** February 15, 2007, 11:23:28 AM »

For the record, MiniD, I DID answer you. The ONLY reason anybody would implement Starforce is marketing hype, exaggerating the fears of game developers to the point they need to do something, and then blowing smoke up their aft-end.

I thought I was fairly clear on that. Thanks for ignoring me and not reading my threads, I think I'll return the favor from now on.