Author Topic: Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military  (Read 2120 times)

Offline quintv

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2007, 09:07:14 PM »
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Originally posted by Kieran
Thrawn, Quintv,

Seriously, why go all hyperbolic like that? Crazy. It's as if you think that if you reframe your losing arguments like those opposed to you are crazy, then you win? If so, declare yourselves winners and be done with it.

I can only state my basis for not supporting homosexuality. Accept it or don't, but spare me the "OMIGOSH, THE WORLD IS GONNA END" crap. I said nothing like it, nor did any other poster opposed to you in viewpoint.


Don't worry Kieran, I expect only so much from the unwashed masses. :)

Offline Kieran

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2007, 09:17:16 PM »
Jesus said, "I am not here to change a single word that was written about the father. No, I am here to fulfill it."

What does that mean?

It means there is a plan, a movement from the Garden of Eden, through the Law, onto Jesus, and ultimately to God's reign in heaven. Every part is valid and serves its purpose.

Those laws to which your referred are usually used as an excuse to say the words about homosexuality are now devoid. Nuh uh.

If you will, understand the Bible (the Protestant Bible) is divided into New and Old Testaments. The Old Testament God is often referred to as the "God of Anger", while the New Testament God is the "God of Love". Both are valid, because God has both qualities. So? Well, what God says He hates in the Old Testament, He still hates in the New Testament. No, we don't drag adulterers, homosexuals, or anyone else to the edge of our cities and stone them. That part of the Old Testament passed with the coming of Jesus. However, those activities are still considered sinful even as they were then, only the accountability for participating in those sins will be made in the hereafter.

What does that mean to the modern Christian? It means you leave judgement to God WRT the salvation of someone in sin. It does not mean you ignore or condone behaviors described by God as sin. I may not level my finger in a homosexual's face and tell him he's going to hell; I certainly don't know, and it isn't for me to say. I won't tell him how to live his life, either, any more than I would any other person on the street. Sin is sin. That said, I clearly cannot support an activity that is specifically and clearly defined by God as sinful.

Christianity has fringes like any other groups who take things too far. We all get tarred by the same brush regardless.

Offline VOR

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2007, 09:25:50 PM »
The homo-basher bashers are pointing fingers at the homo-bashers and the homo-bashers are pointing fingers at the homo-basher bashers and the homos. It reminds me of Bumfights and Resevoir Dogs, but I didn't have to buy a ticket. :D

Offline eskimo2

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2007, 09:31:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
While I don't necessarily disagree with your ideas, it does not constitute "many" in the context necessary to reflect the positive numbers represented in the poll.

I mean, I understand some Catholics aren't all that big on the Pope being the main conduit to God, but if you are Catholic, it's that black-and-white. So, either you're Catholic or you're not. Pope says homosexuality is wrong, as far as you're concerned, it's wrong. Unless you don't mind being excommunicated.

Protestant religions tend to leave the interpretation of God's word more up to the individual, but only to a point. Some churches disagree on many points of the Bible, but again, only to a point. You see, the Bible is very, very clear on some issues. Homosexuality is one of those issues. It is not described allegorically, metaphorically, as a euphamism, nothing. It is plainly and simply referred to as an abomination, one of very few things so clearly defined.

I have often challenged folks to find me anywhere in the Bible where homosexuality is deemed okay by God, and I've yet to see anyone accept that challenge. Know why? Because they know they can't. Show me a verse that kind of talks about tolerance (in some vague, roundabout way) and I'll show you one that directly specifies God's feelings on it.

Anyway... Bible lesson aside... Christians don't oppose homosexuality based on latent homosexual feelings (as another poster suggested), rather it is a direct message from God himself that homosexuality is wrong. A Christian cannot support any law that supports homosexuality on that basis.


My wife is Catholic.  She went to Catholic schools for 12 years and is involved in her church.  She has an old good friend from high school who is gay; she considers him (and his partner) good friends and so do I.  They are good people, fun, funny and interesting.  They have harmed no one.  Im a catholic school teacher; I know a zillion Catholic families.  Many Catholics take the Bible and the Catholic Churchs positions very literally.  Many folks, however, have confided in me that they take the Catholic Churchs positions with a grain of salt.  They consider biblical stories as interpretations that are subject to interpretation.

Another religious person I know whose opinion matters to me is my father.  When I was born he was a Baptist minister; hes a Presbyterian minister now.  Ive discussed homosexuality with him; he also does not understand what all the fuss is about.

Im far from an expert on the bible.  However, I kind of recall something Jesus said about not being too judgmental and eager to cast stones.  I guess we all remember and focus on the parts that fit how we think and believe.

Offline Gunslinger

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2007, 09:37:46 PM »
I'm here to tell you.  Adding the "openess" about it destroys the "environment"

It's not about Jesus

It's about human nature.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  It doesn't work, it is incompatible.

Once again the whole mantra of how wrong and discriminatory it might be is just propaganda.

Offline eskimo2

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2007, 09:41:32 PM »
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I'm here to tell you.  Adding the "openess" about it destroys the "environment"

It's not about Jesus

It's about human nature.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  It doesn't work, it is incompatible.

Once again the whole mantra of how wrong and discriminatory it might be is just propaganda.



Didnt they say that about blacks and women?

Offline bj229r

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2007, 10:10:58 PM »
In case yall have never noticed, the typical African American gets hacked off when their struggle over the centuries to attain equality is compared to gays wanting to flout their lifestyle in the military, or be allowed to marry and have kids:huh
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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Offline eskimo2

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2007, 10:24:57 PM »
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Originally posted by bj229r
In case yall have never noticed, the typical African American gets hacked off when their struggle over the centuries to attain equality is compared to gays wanting to flout their lifestyle in the military, or be allowed to marry and have kids:huh


Im sure that there are also many Jews who do not like their plight to be compared to the plight of African Americans.  I also bet that many get the connection.

Offline john9001

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2007, 10:26:42 PM »
what about gay african americans?

storch

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2007, 11:00:20 PM »
no way it can work.  when I was completing my term of enlistment aboard the USS Bigelow three new sailors were mustered aboard that were very effeminate,  not to say they were gay but they seemed to be.  they were billeted to berth in the aft berthing compartment and would shower in the largest head.  within the first week of them being aboard they were accused of staring at guys in the shower.  a destroyer is a community of about 400 men and in the few weeks that remained of my enlistment I never saw morale as low as during that time.  I don't know how the situation was handled but those guys pretty much had the shower to themselves by the second week.  everyone that utilized that head allowed them to finish before entering.  thankfully I was berthed forward and in a two shower stall head to handle the sixty or so men that were berthed under the foc'sle.

Offline -dead-

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2007, 11:24:53 PM »
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Originally posted by Yeager
someone who kills for money
====
stop being a dork.


You think he'd do it for free? If so why waste your tax dollars on paying him?
“The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2007, 12:15:48 AM »
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Originally posted by quintv


Just one mans opinion. And I'm not touching the part about women in the military :D (though if by that you mean in combat positions, then we agree,)


We do agree.

Women. in the military should be done very much like the WACs and Wavs in WWII.

Nurses,secretaries,clerks and other supporting roles
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #57 on: March 14, 2007, 12:18:09 AM »
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Kieran, if I recall, the main part of the bible that condemns homosexuality is the same part that forbids shaving, gives advice pertaining to sex with slaves, talks about stoning blasphemers to death, and so on.  Is all of that still in effect too?


No, Cept in the middle east.
Stoning blasphemers went out of style long ago

:D
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #58 on: March 14, 2007, 12:20:11 AM »
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Originally posted by Kieran

I have often challenged folks to find me anywhere in the Bible where homosexuality is deemed okay by God, and I've yet to see anyone accept that challenge. Know why? Because they know they can't. Show me a verse that kind of talks about tolerance (in some vague, roundabout way) and I'll show you one that directly specifies God's feelings on it.
 


Ok

"Love thy neighbor as you love thyself" :lol
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Gen. Pace weighs in on gays in the military
« Reply #59 on: March 14, 2007, 12:34:29 AM »
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Originally posted by eskimo2
You want ironic?  Ive always thought that I was 100% straight.  Recently, however, Ive begun to realize that homophobic men really turn me on!


so what if someone is homophobe

Nothing wrong with that either.

To most straight men, a man being gay is downright weird and outright disgutingly repulsive
And not normal.

And yanno what.
Its not.

I have nothing against gays.
Whatever you do behind your closed doors is none of my business.
Just dont do it in front of me  because I find it repulsive.


Cept for lipstick lesbians :D
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
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