Triple Buffs Should GO

[storch]

why don't the C47s up in formation as well?  they are categorized as bombers n'est pas?

[BiGBMAW]

I have never scene 999900000 fly at treetop level to be deathstar..maybe a great once in ahwile...

But for some guy named hub to say thats all he sees him do....Hes lying

And Im not a mind reader..but I read hubs mind saying.."Im scared of bombers"

[hubsonfire]

Not the place for pursefighting. I stand by my opinions, and my observations of how bombers are used in the game. If you choose to disagree with them, that's fine, but it doesn't make me a liar.

[ghi]

Originally posted by 4deck
Right off the boeng site


Top speed: 287 mph
Cruising speed: 150 mph
load

Pay attention to the MAX Speed
Thanx
Enough said.

 

  What bomber was able to run with max speed loaded with 1000s of lbs of bombs fuel,crew, defensive gunz, from London to Berlin 7-10 hours with the engine 100% power ? it would puke a coctail of oil ,pistons and rings

Go to garage, start your car, put a concrete block on gas pedal, for max rpm, and leave it for 7-8 hours, See what's happen.

[Wolf14]

I think Hub might mean Fortress. At least thats who I thought of when he made that comment about flying low level into cv's and stuff.

Wolfy

[hubsonfire]

Fortress is probably the most well known bombikazi pilot currently, but he learned that trick from someone else.

As an aside, fortress is getting better. I've seen him survive a couple of bomb runs, where he normally used to blow himself up before anyone could shoot him.

[quintv]

If I see Olive drab B-17s roaming around at low to medium alts I attack them with extreme caution, if at all.

999

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by ghi
What bomber was able to run with max speed loaded with 1000s of lbs of bombs fuel,crew, defensive gunz, from London to Berlin 7-10 hours with the engine 100% power ? it would puke a coctail of oil ,pistons and rings

Go to garage, start your car, put a concrete block on gas pedal, for max rpm, and leave it for 7-8 hours, See what's happen.

I didn't say they ran 100% power for 7-10 hours, and the weight of the airplane doesn't matter to the engines.  The only thing weight affects are ceiling (max altitude you can attain) and speed (because, put simply, a heavier load creates more drag).  Second, automotive engines aren't designed to run at rated horsepower for long durations of time.  Aircraft engines are.  The power settings listed on the charts above show cruise conditions of the max continuous power rating of the engines or less.  Not to be condesending, but that's the rating at which the manufacturer says they can be run continuously without threat of damaging the "coctail of oil, pistons and rings".  And, at those settings listed on the charts, you will see TAS between a range of 240-275 at the higher settings for the 64,000lb load at 25,000 feet.  

I don't know how much plainer I can state it, but True Airspeed at those types of altitudes skyrockets.  That's why the 163 or 262 can go into Mach effect at extreme altitudes in level flight.  The use and difference of IAS and TAS is a basic flying principle.  Do a Google search and tell me I'm wrong...

I hate to be so obstinate, but I'm getting frustrated.  Sorry.

[Oleg]

Originally posted by Stoney74
The charts I referenced, posted below, are USAAF charts that were used for mission planning.  

Your charts for B-17F, which was faster than B-17G we have and had cruising speed 200 mph at 25k according baugher page.

btw, it dont means they always flew at this speed regardless of range, bombload etc.

[Oleg]

Originally posted by 999000
OK so if fighters go about twice as fast as Bombers whats the problem?

Speed dont make bombers stronger target (it does, but not too much, lets ignore it), but it takes a lot of time to climb above them and catch them, unless you are above bombers already. Usually bombers will do at least one pass over their target before you get attack position (if you dont want to sit at his 6).

[moot]

Oleg what about fighters that climbed to 30k 1 sector before the frontline.. should we nerf those too?
What about infinitely renewing WEP, should that go too?

Some people are having "a really hard time" catching them, for those reasons.

Seriously, bombers 1) are easy kills, 2) could use a slightly more easily missed calibration and/or more dispersion to compensate for high altitude precision of the current bombsite, 3) could use 2 more drones for a perk cost if they had realistic dispersion.

Drones don't always follow the real FM, but not having them catch up on take off as they do now would just be a hassle, the same way the good would far outweigh the bad if we got full engine management for dogfighters.
While in flight, it is easier to lose them than keep them in range of the lead bomber, so if there is any overmodel there, it isn't enough of a handicap to make them overly advantaged..
As for the warping.. it lasts a few seconds.  Enough to regain some more energy for the next pass than you would get if they didn't warp... so that means as it stands, fighters are the ones with something to gain from bombers warping.  
Bombers certainly can't shoot accurately while spinning out.

Bombers always have and always will require pre-emptively climbing up to them for interception.

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by BiGBMAW
I have never scene 999900000 fly at treetop level to be deathstar..maybe a great once in ahwile...

But for some guy named hub to say thats all he sees him do....Hes lying

And Im not a mind reader..but I read hubs mind saying.."Im scared of bombers"

Spot on! Hub is just a clueless noob.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Oleg
Your charts for B-17F, which was faster than B-17G we have and had cruising speed 200 mph at 25k according baugher page.

btw, it dont means they always flew at this speed regardless of range, bombload etc.

Here's a challenge for anyone that wants to try it.  Take the TA terrain and load it offline.  Go to one of the 30K bases and takeoff in a B-17 with 6,000 lbs of bombs and 100% fuel.  Gross weight will be 64,000lbs  and change.  Once you get out of the nose dive at the end of the runway, level off at 25,000 feet and try to fly the plane at 150 mph TAS.  It is impossible as the plane stalls out.

Then, you can tell HTC that their model is wrong and hear how they explain it.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by E25280


You just made a proof against your argument . . .

The buffs in the game are not the problem.  It is the fighters who blindly/fearlessly plow forward toward the buffs that are the cause of the apparent "overly lethal" defensive gunnery.

Yeah right, I tried attacking 999000 a couple times. I was positioned high 2 o'clock and started my descent for attack. D800 1 ping and bang wing gone.

I'd take 3 vs 1 in fighters any time compared to 3 drones vs 1 fighter. Buffs are so rediculously leathal that if they were like this in real world, the allied would never bother to manufacture a single fighter. They'd fly NOE all the way to germany and cherrypick any fighter who was forced to follow them on the deck after the initial pass with an option to regain alt and speed for 20 minutes to get another pass. Anyone recognize the scenario I'm talking about?

Then they'd just circle around Hitlers bunker and strafe everything on the ground with the megalazers.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
They'd fly NOE all the way to germany and cherrypick any fighter who was forced to follow them on the deck after the initial pass with an option to regain alt and speed for 20 minutes to get another pass. Anyone recognize the scenario I'm talking about?

 

Bombers never flew tree top........................









 Or so I am told.



Bronk