Author Topic: Triple Buffs Should GO (Read 9507 times)

Krusty · « **Reply #210 on:** March 21, 2007, 03:16:43 PM »

Points? Who said you get any points for killing bombers? You can kill 6 bombers in one sortie and still only make 0.9 perks. They're all but worthless compared to killing a la7 or spit16.

1Boner · « **Reply #211 on:** March 21, 2007, 03:25:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Points? Who said you get any points for killing bombers? You can kill 6 bombers in one sortie and still only make 0.9 perks. They're all but worthless compared to killing a la7 or spit16.

points towards your score

not perks.

bombers get nothing toward there scores for killing a fighter.

6 bombers in one sortie???

boy them buffs sure are easy to kill, huh??

but who's countin???

Boner:noid

BiGBMAW · « **Reply #212 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:01:49 PM »

B-29s had snyc'd guns

Krusty · « **Reply #213 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:04:39 PM »

Way to twist things I say, 1boner.

If you're interested in score-whoring, bombers are the last thing you'd attack. Ask all the #1 ranked score potatos out there. They'd rather take on 5 enemy fighters than 1 group of bombers.

"points" my arse.

SkyRock · « **Reply #214 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:33:19 PM »

Missing the point i guess......one player should only get one ride....period! It is the gamiest thing in AH2.

Mark

1Boner · « **Reply #215 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:34:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Way to twist things I say, 1boner.

If you're interested in score-whoring, bombers are the last thing you'd attack. Ask all the #1 ranked score potatos out there. They'd rather take on 5 enemy fighters than 1 group of bombers.

"points" my arse.

Twist???

ladies and germs, Boner has left the building!!!!:cool:

Tango · « **Reply #216 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:38:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SkyRock
Missing the point i guess......one player should only get one ride....period! It is the gamiest thing in AH2.

Mark

I doubt there would be any bombers seen in the air if that happened.

SkyRock · « **Reply #217 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:42:27 PM »

I believe that to be untrue, unless they're only flying the bombers to be gamey! 12 synched guns is enough for one player, and 13,000 lbs of ordinance is enough as well!:aok

Mark

hubsonfire · « **Reply #218 on:** March 21, 2007, 05:44:48 PM »

I don't know when the bombers were added to the game (I started playing in tour 22), but I know we flew them before there were formations. I would imagine anyone who was actually interested in bombers would fly them regardless.

frosty · « **Reply #219 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:09:25 PM »

I have no issue with the buff guns, or the formations, or even the drone warping (unless it's obvious that the pilot is intentionally exploiting it).

My ONLY problem with buffs is their effectiveness against CVs and the corresponding dismissal of torpedo planes. Yes, I know AH2 isn't historically accurate, thus rendering the argument that buffs were not used against carriers kind of pointless.

But as it is, it's just TOO EASY for buffs to take down CVs. Such an important target should require a lot more work and coordination to take down.

Yeah yeah, "you fighter jocks should defend them then", but as I've just granted you bufftards the benefit of the doubt in regards to the realities of AH, then you guys must also accept that in AH, expecting people to up fighters to 20K to guard a CV that can be knocked out with 1 or 2 easy buff passes is pretty freakin' unreasonable. Every time a CV gets anywhere near a base, it's as if every bufftard in the arena pitches a tent and next thing you know there are 15 Lancs flying in, 5 or 6 pilots literally racing each other for the free meal.

Even when this is done to an opposing CV, I usually hate it. It generally means an awesome battle was averted by some weiner in a flying barcalounger.

I personally think CVs should be as difficult to bring down as an airfield, though I know that's a subjective measurement. Still, it should be a CHALLENGE to destroy something that is so important and adds so much fun to the game.

What gets me is that there is torpedo ordinance in AH2, and planes built especially for that role, but the current bomber vs. CV modeling essentially renders torpedo missions entirely pointless.

My solution? Up the amount of ordinance it takes to sink a CV, by a lot. That'll make these buff runs on them more difficult. Then, up the damage factor of torpedoes to compensate, thus maintaining (perhaps improve) their effectiveness on CVs.

Organizing torpedo runs on CVs would be a lot of fun. My guess is 99% of AH players have never even launched a torpedo from a plane. It's a whole other skill to master but as it stands it has no purpose.

1Boner · « **Reply #220 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:19:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by frosty
I have no issue with the buff guns, or the formations, or even the drone warping (unless it's obvious that the pilot is intentionally exploiting it).

My ONLY problem with buffs is their effectiveness against CVs and the corresponding dismissal of torpedo planes. Yes, I know AH2 isn't historically accurate, thus rendering the argument that buffs were not used against carriers kind of pointless.

But as it is, it's just TOO EASY for buffs to take down CVs. Such an important target should require a lot more work and coordination to take down.

Yeah yeah, "you fighter jocks should defend them then", but as I've just granted you bufftards the benefit of the doubt in regards to the realities of AH, then you guys must also accept that in AH, expecting people to up fighters to 20K to guard a CV that can be knocked out with 1 or 2 easy buff passes is pretty freakin' unreasonable. Every time a CV gets anywhere near a base, it's as if every bufftard in the arena pitches a tent and next thing you know there are 15 Lancs flying in, 5 or 6 pilots literally racing each other for the free meal.

Even when this is done to an opposing CV, I usually hate it. It generally means an awesome battle was averted by some weiner in a flying barcalounger.

I personally think CVs should be as difficult to bring down as an airfield, though I know that's a subjective measurement. Still, it should be a CHALLENGE to destroy something that is so important and adds so much fun to the game.

What gets me is that there is torpedo ordinance in AH2, and planes built especially for that role, but the current bomber vs. CV modeling essentially renders torpedo missions entirely pointless.

My solution? Up the amount of ordinance it takes to sink a CV, by a lot. That'll make these buff runs on them more difficult. Then, up the damage factor of torpedoes to compensate, thus maintaining (perhaps improve) their effectiveness on CVs.

Organizing torpedo runs on CVs would be a lot of fun. My guess is 99% of AH players have never even launched a torpedo from a plane. It's a whole other skill to master but as it stands it has no purpose.

other than the fact that i don't know many(if any) guys that can hit a moving cv from 20k.

Bravo!!!

i agree , wholeheartedly with the rest of your proposal!!!

oooops,

i forgot, i left the building!!

Boner:D

moot · « **Reply #221 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:22:10 PM »

Just saying 1-man 1-plane means nothing.
1-man 3-planes

Are you convinced yet? Me neither.

So like I asked, what's the problem with formations?
Do you really expect bombers to survive as single ships?
Like I said before, and someone repeated, and neither Hub nor Skyrock refuted, bombers are meant to be attacked at least with a wingman.
Like I said before, the worst case for a fighter, is if the formation is manned by a pilot and a gunner both very proficient at gunning. In which case you will need to be three to guarantee gunning down the entire formation without taking any damage.

How is that unfair to the bombers' benefit?
Consider that this worst case scenario seldom happens, and it's questionable how one might ask for more handicaping.

EagleDNY · « **Reply #222 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:29:21 PM »

OK - there are a few issues, but they really are easily fixed.

1. The buff boys should get their 3 buff box - they get that because they don't get the 6-7 independent AI gunners that can take on multiple targets at the same time that they should have in a perfect world.

Even with a 3 plane formation, a buff driver is meat for multiple fighters, and if you know what you are doing and don't come in dead on his Six, you can tear up bombers pretty much at will. Its up to you so-called bad-oscar fighter jocks to figure out how, and if you can't then just run away, climb up to 25K and spend your time looking for easy picks.

2. The laser sight bombing is easily remedied - just stop showing the airspeed on the calibration screen! What happens is that people calibrate badly and then adjust their airspeed with the throttle to get that laser accuracy - if the calibration airspeed isn't shown, the problem goes away and people have to learn how to calibrate correctly to get hits. This also stops the buffs from dropping a few bombs and then turning around for another pass without recalibrating.

3. I like the idea of increasing the burn multiplier for buffs - they should have to carry more fuel, so I'd suggest starting at 4x and maybe working up from there. I don't think this will solve the bombers running at full speed issue, but since the fighters have a significant speed and climb advantage anyway, I don't see that as all that important. If the fighters have sufficient warning, they can intercept.

4. Buffs need to be more visible on the radar to give the defense a more reasonable time to up and intercept. The AH radar system really needs some work, and it would be easy to do: just up the default radar range to 25 miles for all bases and CVs (which should definitely help them survive) and show buffs as larger dots. This doesn't stop buff raids, but makes it definitely more desirable for buffs to wing up into bigger groups and take escorts along, which should make things more fun on both the offense and defense.

We've seen some big buff missions in the arenas recently, and they have been an absolute blast. Having 10-12 boxes of B24s come rollin through with escorts at 22K and fighting your way through to get an intercept is some of the best action I've seen. IMHO, hamstringing the buff drivers because you don't know what angles to use in the attack is pretty lame.

EagleDNY
$.02

Bronk · « **Reply #223 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:31:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by frosty
Snip

IMO
The flaw is in the CV handling model.

It's not as simple spin the wheel for a course correction.

So it takes a lot of practice learning how to avoid bombs with the interface we have.

Bronk

moot · « **Reply #224 on:** March 21, 2007, 06:35:14 PM »

The E6B tells you your speed precisely, so removing the speed readout in the bombsight would change nothing.

I do agree large formations of bombers should show up more readily on radar, and that larger battles are the way to go.

Bombers don't need to be slowed down so much to warrant a 4x fuel burn. Unless you're attacking them with Hurricanes (which Krusty and others seem to be, from the way they describe their difficulties), you don't have to be especially good.