Author Topic: The Second Amendment (Read 4177 times)

Toad · « **Reply #90 on:** March 23, 2007, 04:43:51 PM »

TY for the answer MT.

midnight Target · « **Reply #91 on:** March 23, 2007, 04:47:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Charon
Hey MT (little Hijack here),

It might help when you first take it to the range to go with someone from your area familiar with centerfires to work though some of the initial bits. If there is someone at your work, for example, who is familiar with 30 cal centerfires and open sights. I don't know who from the OClub is within going to the range distance of your locale, but if you are ever in the Chicago area I will arrange a shooting day out here. Unfortunately, it tends to be an all day event since the ranges I go to are 1.5 hours away.

Now, this is HARDLY rocket science, but there is a big loud bang and big slap and bad habits can develop early on. Unlike a mouse gun like an AR-15 or a carbine. In fact, it might be a good idea to fire some 22 or low powered "assault weapon" type rounds to get used to the basics.

Charon

There is an outside chance I will be in Chi-town the week of April 11th. Actually I have a meeting in South Bend, but I usually fly into ORD and drive the 90 miles. I will let you know when my schedule firms up.

Charon · « **Reply #92 on:** March 23, 2007, 05:15:45 PM »

Cool.

Charon

ravells · « **Reply #93 on:** March 23, 2007, 08:34:45 PM »

I see Lasz still loves his guns then!

This is what I don't get. We all aim to live in a safe society and let's face it, the US is safer than say....Somalia. Do you people really *need* all those guns? what for? It's pretty safe in the US isn't it? Or do you think the government is coming to get you...wooo wooo !

Take care Lasz!

Ravs

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #94 on:** March 23, 2007, 09:56:34 PM »

Just because you're not paranoid, Ravell, doesn't mean they aren't coming to get you.

Hornet33 · « **Reply #95 on:** March 23, 2007, 10:11:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ravells
I see Lasz still loves his guns then!

This is what I don't get. We all aim to live in a safe society and let's face it, the US is safer than say....Somalia. Do you people really *need* all those guns? what for? It's pretty safe in the US isn't it? Or do you think the government is coming to get you...wooo wooo !

Take care Lasz!

Ravs

And this coming from someone who lives in England where guns are outlawed. Didn't I just read about a couple of thugs over there that were mugging everyone they saw on the subway? Beating them and stabbing them before robbing them? See what gun control has gotten you. Crap like that happens over here too but it's most prevelant in areas that have very strict gun control. See a pattern here?

Take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens only makes it easier for the criminals to do what they want without fear of anyone stopping them. 3 times I've used my shotgun to prevent criminals from breaking into my house or truck. All 3 times the criminals where detained by me until the police arrived (on average 20-30 minutes AFTER I called) and all 3 times those criminals did jail time because I did my civic duty and went to court to testify against them. I never fired a shot, but if I didn't have my gun with me who knows what would have happend because all 3 times those criminals were armed. 2 times they had rather large knives, and the last time the punk had a cheap little .380 auto. He almost got shot at point blank range by a 12 gage when I saw it tucked in the back of his pants.

Now I don't advocate over throwing the government, but I will not allow the government that SERVES me to take away my RIGHT to defend my family or my property. When they outlaw guns here, I'll become an outlaw.

Rollins · « **Reply #96 on:** March 24, 2007, 12:46:22 AM »

Hap · « **Reply #97 on:** March 24, 2007, 02:36:10 PM »

That is too funny.

Helrazr1 · « **Reply #98 on:** March 24, 2007, 05:38:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
My gun's bigger than yours lazs.

I just think there is a place in society for reasonable gun controls.

Interestingly enough, "reasonable gun controls" don't affect the people that it should. Do you really believe that "reasonable gun controls" have any impact on your local corner thug who buys his guns out of a trunk after they've been stolen? Absolutely not, it affects the law-abiding gun owners who go about acquiring their weapons in a legal manor. Basically what "reasonable gun controls" do, is to take yet another method of protection away from the legal gun owners, while leaving the criminals unaffected.

On second thought, I think you're right, I'm going to turn in all of my guns now, because all of us fans of the 2nd are a danger to ourselves, and should be regulated. After all, we're not individuals. We need someone to tell us what we can and can't do on every issue in our lives. Thank you for helping me come to the light and see the errors in my thinking!

VOR · « **Reply #99 on:** March 24, 2007, 06:53:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ravells
Do you people really *need* all those guns? what for?

I have a few, but I don't need any of them.

I don't need an automobile that is capable of exceeding the legal interstate speed limit, but I have one of those too.

I don't need the computer I'm sending this silly message on, but here it is.

Most people don't need them at all, some do. Think outside the box.

lazs2 · « **Reply #100 on:** March 25, 2007, 10:32:12 AM »

so rav... Yeah, I like guns and America is a pretty safe place... in many ways.. safer than where you live. If someone trys to break into my home or threatens me on the street tho...

In your country... I can run and hide and hope that I only get robbed and not beaten or stabbed.. I can also hope that I can win a fight with the criminal... Criminals have less restraints than most of us tho and will probly have no moral compunctions against stabbing or clubbing me to death or near to it..

In my country... I can pull out a firearm and change his whole plan... mostly...he will just go away and the incident won't even be noticed by society... other times... He will get shot and society will be a little better off.

in our country we say that criminals and kids and insane people can't have guns.. In your country, no one can.. In either case tho.. they are just laws and when push comes to shove, they are meaningless... it is the penalty not the law that does the work.

As for us aiming for a safe society.. That is what women yearn for....I do not yearn for a safe society so much as I yearn for a free one. Free people will have all the safety they need.

lazs

ravells · « **Reply #101 on:** March 25, 2007, 07:47:57 PM »

Lasz

What I was asking is whether the crime rate everywhere in the US is so high that it justifies the right for everyone to have a firearm - which seems to be your only justification (although as I understand it the constitutional reason for the right to bear arms was to ensure that citizens had the right to combat a despotic government). I guess you think the answer is yes. If you were to live in an area where crime was high then I could understand the need for it. Not sure I understand what you mean by only women wanting a safe society.

Every now and again we have gun crime here and robberies (and they do seem on the increase) and maybe we'll hit the point where it does mean that law abiding citizens should bear arms to protect themselves. I guess as a nation we don't think we've reached that point yet.

Ravs

Helrazr1 · « **Reply #102 on:** March 25, 2007, 08:47:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
so rav... Yeah, I like guns and America is a pretty safe place... in many ways.. safer than where you live. If someone trys to break into my home or threatens me on the street tho...

In your country... I can run and hide and hope that I only get robbed and not beaten or stabbed.. I can also hope that I can win a fight with the criminal... Criminals have less restraints than most of us tho and will probly have no moral compunctions against stabbing or clubbing me to death or near to it..

In my country... I can pull out a firearm and change his whole plan... mostly...he will just go away and the incident won't even be noticed by society... other times... He will get shot and society will be a little better off.

in our country we say that criminals and kids and insane people can't have guns.. In your country, no one can.. In either case tho.. they are just laws and when push comes to shove, they are meaningless... it is the penalty not the law that does the work.

As for us aiming for a safe society.. That is what women yearn for....I do not yearn for a safe society so much as I yearn for a free one. Free people will have all the safety they need.

lazs

AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!!!!!!!!

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #103 on:** March 25, 2007, 09:28:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ravells
Lasz

What I was asking is whether the crime rate everywhere in the US is so high that it justifies the right for everyone to have a firearm - which seems to be your only justification (although as I understand it the constitutional reason for the right to bear arms was to ensure that citizens had the right to combat a despotic government). I guess you think the answer is yes. If you were to live in an area where crime was high then I could understand the need for it. Not sure I understand what you mean by only women wanting a safe society.

Every now and again we have gun crime here and robberies (and they do seem on the increase) and maybe we'll hit the point where it does mean that law abiding citizens should bear arms to protect themselves. I guess as a nation we don't think we've reached that point yet.

Ravs

The Constitution (specifically the 2nd Amendment of the Bill of Rights) justifies the right of almost every citizen to possess firearms. The vast majority of us have decided NOT to surrender that right to a bunch of panty waisted candy assed nanny staters.

Thanks.

Toad · « **Reply #104 on:** March 25, 2007, 09:56:52 PM »

Ravs,

The English Bill of Rights (1689) included the freedom [for Protestants] to bear arms for self-defence.

Our Founders included the right to own arms our Bill of Rights. Contrary to what a lot of misinformed folks think, it wasn't just there as a right to combat a despotic government.

George Mason, Co Author of the Bill of Rights:

"Divine Providence has given to every individual the means of self defense."

Thomas Paine:

"Arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property."

Sam Adams, Father of the American Revolution:

"The Constitution should never be construed to prevent the people of the United States...from keeping their own arms."

"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." ---Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776.

"The whole of that Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals...t establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." ---Albert Gallatin to Alexander Addison, Oct 7, 1789