Vets

[BaldEagl]

I was reading a thread in the Help and Training Forum on using the BF110 as a fighter when I came across the following response.  I have also posted my reply.  I thought others who don't frequent the Help and Training Forum might be interested in commenting on this

quote:
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Originally posted by Kweassa
It all comes down to basically the art of cherrypicking.

........ (edited out)

Therefore, the secret to success is;

1) fly higher than everyone else
2) use all your friends as bait
3) come down and cherrypick upon chance
4) run as fast as possible if something coalt comes along

That basically applies to all the "inferior planes" the "vets" seemingly employs to great success. Either they fight against nincompoops, or fly it in such a manner which the plane's pure spec is meaningless and only the general situation dictates who gets a pot-shot against the other.
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As a "vet" who regularily flys "inferior planes" to seemingly great success (at times) I take offense to your statement.

Some of the "inferior planes" are not really inferior at all. They may be against some planes but not against others (as all planes in the set are). You really ought to try some of them out. All planes have strengths and weaknesses and, as has often been said, use your strengths to exploit you opponents weaknesses. I'd have to say off-hand that the vets have a better grip on these factors than others, therefore their tendancy to do better in lesser aircraft.

As to flying against "nincompoops", when I meet an opponent in the arena I don't have a clue whether they are a noob or a vet or someting in between. I go into every fight expecting to win regardless what I'm in or what I'm up against. If I don't then I find myself flying around just waiting for the inevitable rather than giving the fight everything I have.

If plane specs are equal I'll always put my money on the vet. If plane specs aren't in the vets favor, I'll still put my money on the vet.

If you actually believe what you wrote above then you're never going to be able to beat anybody in anything in a fair one on one bacause you'll never develop the skills needed to do so.

I hope any noobs reading this thread avoid your "advice".

[SkyRock]

SkyRock<---owns Vets!  








Seriously though, that advice is a load of crap!

Mark

[nirvana]

I think he produced a valid point while I do quite enjoy flying the Hurri 1 and maybe a D3A or TBM every so often, Kweassa hit the nail on the head with how to fly with success in this game (something I still can't do after 3 or 4 years).  It all depends on what you find fun.  If you like to sit up high then cherry pick then more power to you.  If you like to fly a plane with 8 .303s and try and get a kill or two on the deck, go for it.

The Hurricane is a mean brute down low against people who try to turn with it, especially if your convergence is correct.  That being said it's still a very early war plane and flying against what the LW usually is then it is an absolute deadly, inferior plane.  Don't take offense to "inferior" now they just think your plane sucks and is always an easy kill.

[hubsonfire]

When it comes to flying inferior planes, and how vets do well in them, Kweassa is probably the last person to seek advice from.

Anyone who does well in an inferior plane (disregarding the vultures, pickers, and hordemonkeys) is likely flying their particular ride to it's strengths, the opponents they kill are not, and/or they have decent gunnery skills. You do not need to fly timidly in order to do well, unless surviving is what you consider to be "success", even if it means you do no killing.

[Masherbrum]

I've landed more kills in a Spit1 and Ki61 (in the LWA) and always laugh when "a privileged few attempt to preach".    Some just need the attention, a shame Kweassa went off of the deep end in life.

[Bronk]

IMNSHO

If certain people flew as much as they come and post multi paragraph whines  about.

1. how and what other people fly.
2. flight models
3. damage model
4. unfounded US aircraft bias
5. How Il2 does it
6. Gunnery model
7. Arena split
Ect.. ect...ect...


They'd make levi look like a 2 weeker.




Bronk

[Max]

<--- Proud as punch to be a NINCOMPOOP

[moot]

Kill em faster than they kill you.

[FALCONWING]

some people are in denial....

kweassa actually is right in many ways...

many of the top fiter squads/top pilots fly exactly the same way he describes...and there is nothing wrong with it...

for many of the "studs" (especially p-51/p47/f4/p-38 pilots) not to acknowledge that they can generally be found with alt and wingmen and NOT in the middle of a furball but often on the periphery closer to their base is silly...how do i know this..because i often "hunt" them...i find it to be fun and a good way to sharpen my skills...but im not gonna get them by upping a field and trying to get an even match with them.

yes yes..i know skyrock and hub like to furball...they do and they do a nice job but they dont have the l33t status that others occupy and they dont rank high in scores...there is nothing wrong with that style of flying either...

and yes i know blukitty and a select few really do have success with low alt/slow flying...and hats off to them as well!!!  but even kitty stays off to the side and doesnt live in the center of the furball with guys getting all angle shots on him (yes its a him)...he chooses more 1v1 situations where his skill can dominate

BUT most of the high score/high k/d pilots fly EXACTLY as kweassa describes...and once again..it is their $15 and i applaud ALL styles of flying...

but lets not beat up kweassa for daring to fess up as to what the secret is to many pilot's success...the man speaks the truth:aok

hope i didnt offend anyone i named here because that was not my intent

[Bronk]

Falc not to be confrontational.
But that coming from the CO of one of the largest/multi wing squads...

Well you know.... pot vs kettle  comes to mind.





Bronk

[TW9]

hmm i rack up many kills and i rarely run from a fight.. i enter them at around 5-7k so thats hardly being an alt monkey and i mainly do it flying 190a8s, f4u1c's, and p47d40s.. only 1 i'd say is inferior..


kweasa is just a hateful noob dont listen to him

[1ijac]

I also think kweassa has a point as others do.  Everyone has a flight style in different planes.  The mere fact that many have different views on how a particular plane should be flown shows that we are a diverse community.  No one really cares to be picked while fighting, vulched while taking off, etc.., but that doesn't mean that the person picking, vulching, etc..  is wrong.  The beauty of the game is that you can grab a nice new shiny plane when you die.  In reality, no one really cares to lose a fight.  The better you are at accepting defeat at times, the less whining everyone would have to listen to on 200.  I personally think that the idealists need to relax a bit and fly in an arena where they can fight the style of fights that they want and then there would be no dissappointment for them.  Otherwise, hush up and die with some dignity.

[quintv]

Thats not bad advice for staying alive.
It gets the enemy killed, it keeps them from killing you and those around you.

Keeping your energy and not letting yourself get sucked into a low speed contest is how you are effective in a furball. Trying to seek single combat with friendlies and enemies all around you is a bit of a daft idea. It applies even more with less capable aircraft. Otherwise just keep upping N1Ks and Spits and all the other turn and HO furball machines and keep going through planes like a 12 year old goes through tissue paper.

[BaldEagl]

"2) use all your friends as bait"

I hope he's on your side.

Remember... this advice is being given in the Help and Training Forum frequented by noobs.

While I don't disagree that his statements will keep you alive and even get you a few kills I do believe that if this is your only strategy you're doing yourself a dis-service in development of your acm skills.

I also don't believe that most vets fly like a weenie, even in disadvantaged aircraft.  I know that, for the most part, I don't.

[Saxman]

I try to keep a high K/D, but I do it flying my plane's (F4U) strengths based on the situation. If it's 1v1 I'm not afraid to get slow, but if it's a large multi-plane furball I'm high and fast because getting low and slow in an F4U with 30+ cons around, half of them red, is asking to get shot down. Likewise, I won't enter a 4 vs Me co-alt or co-E if I can avoid it.

I don't use guys as bait (unless THEY intend to set me up for a shot) but I'm always on the lookout for a green plane with an enemy (or four. And yes, I WILL roll in to at least scare off a line of 6 bad guys trailing one friendly) in tow. First, fixated enemies make nicer targets and if you're in the conga line and let your SA go just for the chance to spray the most lead into the gangee you DESERVE to get picked. Second, it's just plain tactically sound to keep more of YOUR guys in the air than there are RED guys.