Say NO to the G.55

[FrodeMk3]

Hey Ball, if we add the C.R.42, then we oughta add the Gloster Gladiator, as well.

EDIT: It would be cool if we had a skin for them like those of the "three sisters" of Malta, Faith, Hope, and Charity, that had to defend the island single-handed until the Pedestal convoys could get through.

[Ball]

That would be fun.  Although the Gladiator isnt as important to the RAF as the CR42 is to the Italians.

I would love to furball in a Gladiator though, would be so much fun

[LancerVT]

Originally posted by Ball
ROFLOL

 

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145428

Krusty cannot decide how many were produced either: -



Only about 100 made, but we know from other sources (even wiki) that many sat undelivered at the factories. There were probably less than 50 in service, or less.

Hey, I'd LOVE this plane, just trying to clarify the history a bit  

You lose this book krusty?

 

Scarce plane? from what you have been saying it was the backbone of the IAF!

 

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198768

LOL furball, Nice finds
Now, I'm just waiting for Krusty's rebuttal....

[Bodhi]

In case you missed it, Krusty on G.55:

Originally posted by Krusty
"While the G.55 was probabily the Standard fighter of the IAF during WW2"

Hardly!! Way more c.205s were made than were made with the G55, and the c.205 was a rare bird itself!

No, if you're looking for standard Italian planes during the second world war, you need to look for the G50, the CR 200 or maybe (maybe) the Re2000 radial series.

Only reason people want the G55 is the same reason people wanted the P38G. They think it will out fly and out shoot any other plane in the game. We have enough uber planes by my counting.

I hope we never get it. But that's just me.

You can view it here @

http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145428

[Gianlupo]

Ok. But what about what I wrote in my posts? Why you guys don't answer to it?

[Bodhi]

which post?

[humble]

Originally posted by Bodhi
I am 100% not against adding Italian aircraft.  If you want to add an Italian aircraft though, then add the CR.42 and SM.79.  

Both served in significant numbers.  Hell a CR.42 is in a museum over in England after it was shot down during the Battle of Britain.

That is the way it should be.  Insignificant, hypothetical uber planes should have lower priority than the real in your face aircraft that were there and fought in numbers.

The G.55 isnt "hypothetical"....it served in front line combat units. It's priority is certainly open for debate. There is absolutely no question that the P-39 wins against any plane if we arque on that basis. However the p-39 history is in some ways a great arguement FOR the G.55. Very few people (IRL or here) understand just how significant a role the P-39 played...it had a profund effect on the war. The P-39 was the single most important lend lease priotity to the russians by a wide margin. If we view the air/land battles at Kuban as the "midway" of the ETO then the P-39 is integral to the most important events in the ETO.

The russians were pragmatic enough to not only use the P-39....but to recognize its full value and equip its elite units with the plane over other more politically "correct" planes. The P-39 was the primary interceptor for a significant part of the elite soviet units well into 1944. The germans on the other hand let pride and politics overrule a military decision. Given the historical fact that the daylight bombing campaign was hanging on by a thread the G.55 might well have been the straw that broke the camels back.

There is no question that the G.55 was simply a "bit player" when put in a historical context. But that decision may very well have cost germany the war....or at least hastened its demise. Remeber this is not a reenactment....its a simulation. The G.55 is ceretainly a worthy addition....

[FrodeMk3]

The russians were pragmatic enough to not only use the P-39....but to recognize its full value and equip its elite units with the plane over other more politically "correct" planes. The P-39 was the primary interceptor for a significant part of the elite soviet units well into 1944. The germans on the other hand let pride and politics overrule a military decision. Given the historical fact that the daylight bombing campaign was hanging on by a thread the G.55 might well have been the straw that broke the camels back.

Humble, I assume that you're alluding to the American Daylight bombing campaign, as staged by the 8th AF? If that's so, then I'll point out right now that was due to alot of things, ranging from command level decisions for mission alts/strengths, the lack of long range escorts until almost mid '44, the unexpected intensity of flak/German defenses and radar....

...But sure as HELL not the G.55.

The reason the RLM dumped their interest in the G.55, and developement of almost all other Piston-engined fighters, was because the Me-262 had already made it's maiden flight by that time. The Luftwaffe turned it's development energies into the new Jet-fighters,as can be witnessed by their proliferation during the final 2 years of the conflict. Giving up on the G.55 DEFINETELY did not cost the Germans the war.

[Gianlupo]

This one Bodhi.

Originally posted by Gianlupo


So, we should add to AH something that adds to the game aspect and, in the long term to CT....

Well, it all depends on what you think is "the game aspect".... reading through your above words, it seems that we need plane that could be used widely in scenarios and can see some use in the MA... well, IMO, MAs are still the most important part of the game. There you find most of the players, 24/7, there you'll find most of the fights (like them or not).

So, I'd say that we have to add to the game a plane that can add something to the MAs, in first place, to CT, then and, in the end, in AvA or SEA. Like it or not, I'm afraid this is the order in which you have to list them.
Then, you have not to look at production numbers, but at flying characteristics of the planes: IMO, G.55, Yak3, Ki44, maybe P39 and Me410 are the planes that could add to "the game aspect".

Regarding my choice, it has good flying characteristics, good armament and would be a fearsome opponent in MA (not only in MW, even in LW)... and in CT perspective, if the first tour will be the 8th AF against Germany, isn't it likely that the second one will be the 15th AF against Germany and Italy? Then the Centauro would be really useful...

Bottom word: I think that historical reasons should (and will) have less impact on the voting, while the characteristic of the plane should (and will) be the true criterion by which the winner should (will) be elected.

Just my 2 cents, of course.

One last thing, regarding German interest for the G.55: check the first link in my signature, you'll find why it didn't went in production in Germany.

[humble]

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
Humble, I assume that you're alluding to the American Daylight bombing campaign, as staged by the 8th AF? If that's so, then I'll point out right now that was due to alot of things, ranging from command level decisions for mission alts/strengths, the lack of long range escorts until almost mid '44, the unexpected intensity of flak/German defenses and radar....

...But sure as HELL not the G.55.

The reason the RLM dumped their interest in the G.55, and developement of almost all other Piston-engined fighters, was because the Me-262 had already made it's maiden flight by that time. The Luftwaffe turned it's development energies into the new Jet-fighters,as can be witnessed by their proliferation during the final 2 years of the conflict. Giving up on the G.55 DEFINETELY did not cost the Germans the war.

The luftwaffe never dropped its interest in the G.55. It recommended that the G.55 replace the 109 (which if you didnt notice stayed in production till the end of the war).

My "point" is that in mid 1943 US Bomber losses were very high and the entire daylight bombing campaign was at risk. Had the G.55 been put into production in March/April 1943 it would have had a major impact on US losses IMO. Had the G.55/II been placed into service (5 x 20mm) {especially with the K-4 engine} the germans would have had a plane much better suited to bomber interception.

Since this never happened neither one of us knows what the impact would be. But since the germans tried morters, rockets, 50mm cannon and all kinds of other outlandish things its pretty clear they never did really solve the issue. And since the various pods & gizmo's seriously comprimised the 109 and other planes combat capability the germans suffered attrition in both pilots and planes as a result. It's not a big reach to say that a plane designed for hi alt with plenty of cowl room for a bigger engine (and 3 x 20mm in nose) wouldnt have faired better....resulting in higher US bomber losses and lower attrition to the luftwaffe.

Your the one reaching here making statements that seem to have little validity. Replacing the 109 would have had zero impact on the 262 or other programs. As you stated the allies lacked long range escorts...and the 109's had insufficeint range and firepower while the 190's struggled up high. The G.55 with its 40,000+ combat ceiling 30% greater range and 3 times the hitting power would have inflicted a heavy toll on US bombers...

[FrodeMk3]

My point, Humble, and the reason I said,

...But sure as HELL not the G.55.

Is because of this:

The G.55 with its 40,000+ combat ceiling 30% greater range and 3 times the hitting power would have inflicted a heavy toll on US bombers...

Do you know what the key word there is????Give you a hint. Trees might be made of the same stuff.

Give up? Here it is.WOULD

If we go by this, we go into the land of IF and WOULD HAVE, and then we have Junkers Jet bombers with Forward-swept wings, Russian rocket interceptors, and Unsinkable Aircraft Carriers made out of Ice.

If you go by this, we would have to include the YP-80 in our list of candidates, which actually flew with an operational evaluation unit in Italy in the last 2 weeks before VE day.

[Bodhi]

Gianlupo,

I agree, it might actually fly in the MA.  That is not the reason I am against it.  I'd just like to see more of the major players available before we push into models that at their best were rare.

All fairness to you, I would definitely love to see more Itlaian Aircraft, just not the G.55 first.  

Anyhoo, my opinion is getting a bit strong so I will let this rest.  Good luck to you in the voting Gianlupo.

[JAWS2003]

You guys are making a Mesiah out of this G55.

It was a very nice aircraft and it could do high altitude better then the 109 and 190 but.
  At low and mid altitude was not that scarry. It had the good high altitude  handling and performance because of low wing loading and a lot of wing area. This tends to reduce maximum speed at low alt and to reduce the roll rate.
Did you guys see how many work hours it took to build one of this things?
That's one of the reasons it was never an option for producing it for luftwaffe. They could build 262's faster then they would have built this thing.  Let's not even talk about the lost production during the retooling period for the 109 factories.The Germans could not afford that.
 
  What hurt the German people was the bombers. That's what was important for Hitler, Goering and the citizens in German cities. The escorts hurt the Luftwaffe. And that was not as important at that point in time.

 What is better? having 300 slightly better planes when it comes to fighting the escorts or 2000 190's and 109's that can engage the bombers just as well. (or almost that good in the 109 case)?
   
The German high comand decided to go ahead with building jets in 1943 and all developement stoped for all piston engines that were not in production.
  That decision put them in inferiority in piston engine fighters in 1944-1945. Not the lack of the G55.

 If they put more resources in some bigger engines that were already in testing in the begining of 1943, like the BMW-802, they could have had a scary piston engine fightes by mid 1944. That engine was producing 2600HP at take off and 1,600hp at 12,000 m (39,000 ft).
 All you have to do is put it in the FW-190 airframe and increase a little the wings (like in the case of Ta152C) and you have a plane that can do everything better then G55 could ever hope for.

[humble]

Originally posted by FrodeMk3
My point, Humble, and the reason I said,

 

Is because of this:

 

Do you know what the key word there is????Give you a hint. Trees might be made of the same stuff.

Give up? Here it is.WOULD

If we go by this, we go into the land of IF and WOULD HAVE, and then we have Junkers Jet bombers with Forward-swept wings, Russian rocket interceptors, and Unsinkable Aircraft Carriers made out of Ice.

If you go by this, we would have to include the YP-80 in our list of candidates, which actually flew with an operational evaluation unit in Italy in the last 2 weeks before VE day.

You couldnt be more wrong, "would" is a powerful word. It often seperates survival from extinction. If you want to argue the logic go for it. But the simple reality is that luftwaffe fighter development focused omre and more on attempting to stop the bomber stream...and protect the "fighters" configured for the task. Had the germans simply put the G55 in production alot of time and effort would have been redirected elsewhere and the end result WOULD have been better for them. This is a certainty IMO...or are you argueing that the 109 was an equal or better fighter for both bomber interception and air to air combat...?

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by JAWS2003
You guys are making a Mesiah out of this G55.

Got that right, I almost want it to lose now because of it.