Author Topic: War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war  (Read 2337 times)

Offline x0847Marine

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2007, 08:47:33 PM »
Every "war on" the party masters wage is not winnable; the .gov clowns have declared war on cancer,  drugs, poverty... all miserable failures, but I'll bet the political points 'at the time' were good tho, probably got a bump in the poll numbers & rallied the party slaves too.

The war on "terror" is just as stupid and un-winnable... what is "terror", or a "terrorist" anyway?.. those who kill the most Americans on TV? it certainly isn't those who have killed / victimized the most innocent US citizens, that prize belongs to our fabulous southern neighbor... I defy any lamer politician to walk the streets of North Hollywood at night for awhile, then say with a straight face the people in this area aren't being "terrorized". Yet these no war on these "terrorists", er I mean poor folks who lost all their documents.

Offline FLS

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2007, 08:50:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak

That and the War on Drugs are other examples of things that are stupid. At least the War on Poverty doesn't kill people is all that can be said for it.



It's clear that the War on Drugs hasn't been effective.

Quote
Originally posted by Karnak

...And no, I don't buy that the Irannians are insane...
Sorry, read about it, don't listen to the propaganda.



You believe your enemies but not your President , one is evil and the other has a just cause.  :aok
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 08:53:58 PM by FLS »

Offline Yeager

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2007, 08:54:44 PM »
kArnAk fOr pResIDenT :rolleyes:
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2007, 08:55:13 PM »
Sorry, not buying it. The argument completely ignores the difference between fundamental Islamic Fascism and the rest of the Middle East.

Oh, and yes, you CAN make terrorism unacceptable and ineffective. You simply NEVER negotiate, and you NEVER give in. You make the response to acts of terror so swift and so horrible that it becomes obvious to even the most hardened devotee that terror will not achieve their goal, but will instead yield only their destruction.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline john9001

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2007, 08:55:29 PM »
""They hate us because we are in the holy land (Saudi Arabia)""

we are in the holy land? well EXCUES ME !

if i told you my opinion of "holy land" scuzzy would ban me.

i have a idea, we get out of "holy land" and the muslims get out of my USA,  how does that sound ? fair? :furious

Offline Gh0stFT

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2007, 09:18:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
""They hate us because we are in the holy land (Saudi Arabia)""

we are in the holy land? well EXCUES ME !

if i told you my opinion of "holy land" scuzzy would ban me.

i have a idea, we get out of "holy land" and the muslims get out of my USA,  how does that sound ? fair? :furious


as far as i know, there is no arabic/islam millitary country stationed inside
the USA?
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Offline Gunthr

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2007, 10:18:28 PM »
Quote
When President Bush declared "War on Terror" he comitted the United States to an unwinnable, eternal war. He comitted us to something that simply cannot be won using military, or even police forces. You cannot wage war on a concept as concepts cannot be killed. The same is true of war on a tactic, terrorism in this case, as tactics do not vanish due military force being applied in a given place and time. Even if forgotten, there is no method to prevent the recreation/reinvention of such concepts and tactics. - Karnak


I disagree.  Bush could not commit the US to an eternal war.  Bush simply acknowledged the conflict.  We do not allow Presidents to serve more than 8 years, as you know.  Right now, you can see Democrats attempting to withdraw from Bush's committments to "the war against terrorism."  

That won't make our enemies go away.  I don't think we can simply decide not to be involved...  Bush's acknowledgement of this fact is really what his legacy will be.   Time will tell ....
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Dichotomy

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2007, 10:39:27 PM »
If we're still around in 20 years this will be interesting to look back on.  I have my opinions and I rarely state them in open forum becuase they are my ideas and if you disagree I will not be able to change your mind.

Fighting a 'war' in the court of public or world opinion is about as smart as dancing naked on a fire ant bed.

WAR is just that.  You find the enemy, you destroy the enemy, you destroy all of his resources.  You utterly and totally defeat him and yes.. along the way some innocent bystanders will die, be maimed, orphaned, widowed, etc.

Is that sad?  Absolutely.  It sucks that you live in a land where people with a little or a lot of power or were just the bullies on the block put you in the crosshairs.

I may be insensitive but I'll say this.  Better your neighborhood / country than mine.

I want a country that when we send our soldiers into harms way that the enemy says 'well gee if I put that IED there and it kills one of their soldiers they're going to hunt down everybody I know and love and remove them from the gene pool'.  I want a country that when the first private steps off of the plane, chopper, or landing craft, that our enemies KNOW that they are in for a world of hurt and no idealism can change that.

911 etc.. well boys you killed ours and now it's time to either lay down your weapons and your Dupont suits or face the music.  

Step out from behind the women and children and fight the war on the field of honor.  Let me know when the day and date is because I will be there.  

If Allah, Buddah, Xenon, or whatever premeir you have, has convinced you that they will be behind you then put up or shut up and fight the fight against our soldiers.

Oh you want urban warfare?  Cool.. call in the F16's and the A10's and just level the freakin city.  Ooops.. collateral damage.. sorry about that.  Better yours than mine.

Of course that's just my opinion and all.
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline lasersailor184

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2007, 11:03:27 PM »
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the way I do.  I worry about that sometimes.



But, Karnak has revealed himself for the apologist that he is when he claimed that Iran doesn't want the genocide of Israel.  Make of that what you will.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2007, 12:10:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Not genocide as that would be Irannian genocide too.  Certainly they'd like to see Israel go away, but they won't get that wish.  They just have to learn to live with Israel in the world and Israel needs to learn to live with Iran in the world.  MAD might work.  It worked for us and the USSR.

And no, I don't buy that the Irannians are insane and would give nukes to terrorists.

Kim Il Jung on the other hand....

Sorry, read about it, don't listen to the propaganda.


Insane?
 You forget we are dealing with an ENTIRELY different mindset then our own.

These are people who believe if you die in the name of Allah fighting the infidels you will become a martyr.

Remember Iran is the country that produced the first suicide bomber who is now one of their national hero's (I forget his name at the moment)

Somehow I dont think the radical Islam is afraid of genocide. so long as it gets rid of Israel and its allies
Death is no easy answer
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Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline ROC

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2007, 01:03:37 AM »
There is a group of people, with resources and weapons, who firmly believe that the ultimate goal in their life is to die killing the infidels.

They do not have the same view of life and civilization as "we" do.  This is not bad, it is just a reality.  Unfortunately, the western civilization "Currently" is the infidel in their minds. They don't change their views, just their targets over time. You cannot threaten to kill these people, that is their reward for service.  You can only honor them by the threat to kill them, or kill them outright.  This is a war of attrition, since they have no interest in discussing or negotiating.

Now, as much as we would like to discuss, understand and "feel" their pain, it doesn't matter to them if we do.  If we don't convert, we die.  If you are ok with that, keep talking to them.  If not, there is frankly only one solution.

If you don't comprehend the solution, go talk to them and ask.  That will at least get people out of the way so we can stop this garbage once and for all.  The feel gooders that Want a better world, although right in there desire, will get good people Killed by their demands and protests!  This has been going on Long Before Christianity took root, the radical element has been a destabilizing factor for a long time.  There is no way the human race can progress beyond it's current condition until this ludicrous mindset of Dying for some belief is flushed out of the world view as acceptable.  I don't Care what you believe, condemn me to die if I don't believe in what you believe, and I'm going to take you out.

Bush has the right idea, root them out now, get it over with.  Several Thousand Years of this tripe is just about worn out it's welcome.
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline tedrbr

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2007, 01:55:38 AM »
It's about the Oil, Folks.

The source of cheap oil to fuel the western economies.  That's why the west is in the Middle East.  Western efforts to keep that cheap oil supply secure by being involved in that part of the world has led to many of the problems and anti-western feelings.  That in turn has led to modern terrorism.  

So long as we need that cheap oil, we will remain in the region, to try to keep the region "stable", and the war on terror will continue.

Were we ever to develop true alternative energy resources (which we won't, so long as there is oil to be had, as too many people have a vested interest in the oil economy that exists now), and were to leave that region to it's own devices, all the old hatreds and grudges would return...... the whole region would look like Iraq does today, but with no restraint.   Every faction trying to come out on top over every other.

And the rest of the world would care as much about the middle east in flames under those conditions as they do for Darfur now.  Some talk.  No action.


So long as we need the oil, we are committed to the region, and we are committed to spent blood and treasure to try and keep the lid on.

Offline Nilsen

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2007, 02:14:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
You sure as hell can win the war on Terror.

It's called Total War.  The other side loses when they realize how ****ed they are because they messed with us.



I bet an Nuclear ICBM doing circles above Mecca would win the war pretty ****ing quick.


100% False.

It would spawn even more terrorists and make the criminal elements even more determined. The harder you fight them the more support they get and the more they grow out of dispare, hate, positive propaganda for their "cause" and lack of goodwill among your own population.


If america were under attack, would you then cave if symbols of your own national pride, churches or whatnot were destroyed? or would you lock and load your winchesters and do whatever you can to give em some payback?

Offline FastFwd

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2007, 03:24:53 AM »
Good post, Karnak.

And... agree 100% with Nilsen ^

Offline FrodeMk3

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2007, 03:57:41 AM »
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by lasersailor184
You sure as hell can win the war on Terror.

It's called Total War. The other side loses when they realize how ****ed they are because they messed with us.



I bet an Nuclear ICBM doing circles above Mecca would win the war pretty ****ing quick.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you ever wondered why, The U.S., with the ability to destroy the planet 20 times over, has NOT used a Nuclear weapon since Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Because the court of world opinion would be against us, completely and utterly.

Any kind of genocide, or First-strike usage of Nuclear, Biological, or Chemical weapons, even by the U.S., would have dire consequenses, indeed.

We could expect the U.N. to turn against us, giving a country like China the Oppurtunity it needs to knock us off the Pedestal and become the #1 superpower on the planet. We could face an economic embargo, which we are ill-prepared to survive. That, at the least, would plunge us into another Great depression. Only this time, With Most of our manufacturing industry gone overseas already anyway, we would face breadlines full of out-of-work IT techs and medical assistants...

The terrorists' know this. They know that our responses to anything they do will be restricted, that we can't just fire up a Trident-class SSBN and start wailing away...And I'd have to say, they counted on it.

IF the current administration had set about their task correctly, confined the war to Al Queda targets, Stayed away from the things that made themselves a spectacle(Such as Dick Cheney-Halliburton, Lying about WMD, ignoring other potential threats like N.Korea, etc.) And simply going in, doing the job, and leaving, then we might have been able to claim a victory. However, It can now be said that the job was bungled. Instead of keeping the conflict in the context of justice, leaving our other adversaries in the world to take note, we've only exposed our weaknesses. They know that we can get suckered into long, protracted insurgency's with relative ease. They know our military's weaknesses such as Manpower, and incetive. They know that the American people, Even after an atrocity such as 9/11, can sway back into apathy if They believe a just cause has gone rotten.

The worst thing is, they now know, because of the changes we've made since 9/11, is that terrorism works.

They know that with passing of Bills such as the Patriot act, that they can influence the altering of our own constitution. That they could do something that might result in the suspension of something that we as americans find holy, such as the Bill of rights.

Really, right now, among the options on the table, Simply withdrawing the troops is not the best answer...But neither is it the worst.

An american withdrawal will most likely result in a Pro-Islamic regime in Iraq inside of 2-5 years. Of course, what that does for stability in the region, is redundant. What we DON'T want, is for all of the governments in the region to align themselves under one banner(Islam.) Economic embargoes of Oil would be disastrous to the U.S., As anyone who buys gas on a daily basis can tell you.We're already experiencing inflation as a result of higher energy prices, and It's something the Government can't fight very easily(Because the main problem is supply.)

To sum up, No, we can't simply "kill 'em all", This situation will be painful to resolve.