Author Topic: War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war  (Read 2340 times)

Offline Karnak

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« on: April 10, 2007, 05:19:12 PM »
When President Bush declared "War on Terror" he comitted the United States to an unwinnable, eternal war. He comitted us to something that simply cannot be won using military, or even police forces. You cannot wage war on a concept as concepts cannot be killed. The same is true of war on a tactic, terrorism in this case, as tactics do not vanish due military force being applied in a given place and time. Even if forgotten, there is no method to prevent the recreation/reinvention of such concepts and tactics.

What President Bush should have committed us to is the utter destruction of Al Qaeda and its allies and supporters. Nothing more, nothing less. Let the complete annilation of that terrorist organization speak to the others. It would have been a goal with fixed objectives and an obtainable goal.

Now, we have an endless morass and laws that run counter to American traditions at home.

This Administration has committed us to an eternal war on the basis of interventionism and hubris. These are not remotedly conservative traits, but rather traits most often associated with the likes of Presidents Woodrow Wilson and Lyndon Johnson. That the nominally conservative American party has been suckered into supporting this vis a vis backing the Party is a shame as it runs inherently counter to everything the Goldwaterian Republican Party stood for.

And so, here we are with no way out other than to lose face and deal with a world made more dangerous due to our actions.

Not even if those responsible, President Bush, Vice-President Cheney, Secratary of State Rice, former Secratery of Defense Rumsfeld, Rove and others were to fall on their swords would it help assuage the situation in the least at this point.


How is it that the conservative party in the United States was so rapidly and thoroughly subverted that it has become the major, and willing, instrument of the most unconservative foreign policy we have ever had?
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Offline Karnak

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2007, 05:21:19 PM »
One thing that I should point out here is that I am, in many ways, conservative. My posts here have lead many to believe that I am some kind of leftwing radical. This is far from the truth.

I strongly believe in fiscal discipline. Tax cuts, for example, are fine so long as there are spending cuts to match them.

I do not believe in stomping around in other people's countries unless the situation is way out of hand, such as Nazi Germany or Rowanda.

I believe that justice should be color, gender and orientation blind, something it currently fails at.

I believe that people should not be told how to live, nor should the government presume that people are guilty without active evidence to suggest such.

I believe people should be allowed to arm themselves with weapons, barring things like artillery, bombs, chemical gases, nukes, ect.

These are all conservative views.  This is why I am dismayed by the hijacking that has happened to our political system in the United States.
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Offline lasersailor184

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2007, 05:21:22 PM »
You sure as hell can win the war on Terror.

It's called Total War.  The other side loses when they realize how ****ed they are because they messed with us.



I bet an Nuclear ICBM doing circles above Mecca would win the war pretty ****ing quick.
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Offline Karnak

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2007, 05:22:16 PM »
Only if all terrorists were muslim.  As that is not true, your statement is false.

And I am skeptical it would stop even muslim terrorists.
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Offline VOR

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2007, 05:39:48 PM »
Good post.

Offline john9001

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 05:52:38 PM »
shoulda-woulda-coulda, so what you wana do now, run away, surrender,
convert to islam,elect hillary?

always complaints, never answers.

Offline DREDIOCK

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2007, 06:20:02 PM »
Its g od point.
But I think a good counterpoint is that he formally recognised that this was an eternal war already being waged on us since before 9/11.
Inasmuch as we were going ot be targets in this war whether we wanted to be or not. We might as well recognise it and  become proactive in it as opposed to reactive.

To his credit. whether you agree with him or not, He has said all along that this was going to last a long time
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Offline lasersailor184

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2007, 06:59:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Only if all terrorists were muslim.  As that is not true, your statement is false.

And I am skeptical it would stop even muslim terrorists.


The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY are muslims.  Once you've quelled the muslim problem, 99% of the terrorist problem is fixed.


The terrorists threaten to hit us where it hurts.  Why don't we grow a pair of testicles, and promise to hit them back ten times harder?

When they realize the cost of ****ing with this great country is so enormous, then they will not do whatever they want in their little minds.  Sure, they might blow up one of our buses.  But we just took out the terrorists's home mosque / church, incinerating every single family member of that terrorist.  Every single friend of that terrorist is dead.  Every single person who might have remotely even known that terrorist is dead.  The support base for the terrorists drops to nothing.
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Offline Hornet33

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2007, 07:06:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Only if all terrorists were muslim.  As that is not true, your statement is false.



When was the last major terrorist attack that wasn't carried out by muslims?? I agree with you that not all of them are muslims but by far the largest and most dangerous percentage of them are. Most of the European groups have calmed down over the years, because they finally realized that their political views were outdated and it was just easier to negotiate.

The muslim terrorist believe God has told them to do these things they are doing. They don't do it for political power. They do it because they think anyone who doesn't believe the way they do is sub human. So what is the rest of the world supposed to do against a threat like that? Wait until they have enough power and start putting people in concentration camps, burning them alive, gassing them, or nuking them just because they think we don't deserve to live because we're not human beings worthy of life?

That is the fight we are in. You don't believe it? I dare you to go to the middle east and walk down a street with a cross hanging around your neck. I bet you wouldn't make it 2 blocks before someone cuts your head off.

These people that are "believers" of Islam are worse than Hitler ever thought of being. I've known a few Islamic people and for the most part they were just as freindly as can be until the subject of religion came up. I asked a guy I used to know to explain Isalm to me. Within ten minutes I was actually starting to get scarred with some of the stuff he was telling me. He told me to my face that because I am Catholic, even though we were freinds he was duty bound to convert me to Isalm or kill me if Jihad was declared. What kind of crap is that?

Call it profiling, call it racism, call it what you want, but I do not and never will trust anyone who believes in Islam.
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Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2007, 07:40:25 PM »
Dude.

They have hated us sence they took our people prisoner from a boat and we sent in marines and kicked the ever living dog **** out'a them.
kept there ground for a while,then left when washington wouldnt send reinforcements.
A big to all of them.

Some people need a people to hate, in our case.
its a full religion.
Black hawk down, them people were not "war lords" like it said on tv, they were  terrorests seting up camp.
ONLY reason we got back one pilot is because they knew if they flat executed him a seal team would have wiped that town,its people and them clear off the $^%&in' map.

Belive me,we drop a few "realy realy big none nukeular bombs" on the ****ers,we will see murder bombings stop real &@^#in' quick.


And that mutah #$%'er up in iran better watch his oscar,hes about to be neck deep in marines.


"Throws two cents"
Right wrong or indiffrent.


"EDIT:Yes, you are very correct. It is there godly spell bound DUTY to convert people,or murder them in cold blood with ever justification to do so.
With them it realy is "Tomorrow your friends, before a holywar..today your most feared enemy."
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 07:43:39 PM by BaDkaRmA158Th »
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Offline FLS

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2007, 08:00:47 PM »
Karnak I feel the same way about the War on Poverty.  Poverty is also a concept that can't be killed.  Who would you even bomb?

It's almost like labels shouldn't always be taken literally.

Maybe the War on Terror is a neo-con code for attacking anybody that threatens to destroy us, our allies, or our way of life. How is that not an American tradition?

Offline Chairboy

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2007, 08:23:39 PM »
So, if Genocide is the answer, what exactly is the question?
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Offline Karnak

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2007, 08:29:41 PM »
FLS,

That and the War on Drugs are other examples of things that are stupid.  At least the War on Poverty doesn't kill people is all that can be said for it.

Because that isn't what Bush said we were going to do.  He said we were going to use American might to interceed anywhere terrorism crops up.  Africa, for example, were there is tremendous ammounts of terrorist activity by lots of different religions/ethnicities.


As to those whining about the muslims and why they hate it, it isn't for some idiotic thing like "Our freedom".  As Buchanan said, that is an argument that insults the intelligence of a 2nd grader.  If you want to know why they hate us, just listen to what they say.  They are being very clear on the matter.  It is our government, both sides of the isle, that is making things murky.

They hate us because we are in the holy land (Saudi Arabia), for our biased treatment of the people involved in the Isreali conflicts, for our meddling in their governments such as when the CIA overtrew the democratically elected government of Iran and installed the Shah as a US puppet.  They are very blunt about it.


As to what do we do, well, we can start fixing the bloody problem or we can keep shooting ourselves in the feet and saying what a great job were doing while we do it.  Your call.
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Offline FLS

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2007, 08:30:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
So, if Genocide is the answer, what exactly is the question?


What is Iran planning for Israel?

Offline Karnak

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War on Terror means unwinnable, eternal war
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2007, 08:33:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FLS
What is Iran planning for Israel?

Not genocide as that would be Irannian genocide too.  Certainly they'd like to see Israel go away, but they won't get that wish.  They just have to learn to live with Israel in the world and Israel needs to learn to live with Iran in the world.  MAD might work.  It worked for us and the USSR.

And no, I don't buy that the Irannians are insane and would give nukes to terrorists.

Kim Il Jung on the other hand....

Sorry, read about it, don't listen to the propaganda.
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