Author Topic: Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10  (Read 4349 times)

Offline NHawk

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1787
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2007, 08:27:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Those three pictures really doesn't do justice for the previous and current versions of AH2. The only reason the AH1 pic looks great, is because Widewing caught a great 'photo-realistic' angle shot from a player-made terrain using player-made textures. For those of you who hadn't seen AH1, trust me, it doesn't look that good. Especially, the default HTC made terrains look a lot worse off.
Just to back up what Kweassa is saying.

Here's a screen shot of a stock AH1 terrain (mindnao) from version 1.11 taken not 5 minutes ago...


I do however find the shore lines strikingly similar to the new shore lines.

Now if you really want to get into what can be done with the TE, how's this? ....



Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it WILL be done.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 08:37:00 AM by NHawk »
Most of the people you meet in life are like slinkies. Pretty much useless, but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
-------------------------------
Sometimes I think I have alzheimers. But then I forget about it and it's not a problem anymore.

Offline Ghosth

  • AH Training Corps (retired)
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8497
      • http://332nd.org
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2007, 09:19:40 AM »
My opinion, "I think" this release was all about ground vehicles.
Sherman firefly, reworked guns, damage modeling, the works right.

And I'm guessing he reworked the terrain to be GV friendly.
There is no seeing a GV dot at 6K with these settings from the air.

At one point I jumped offline, and the dark green terrain didn't seem as dark a green. So I took a screenshot, went online to same map, same everything, took another screenshot.  Offline was significantly lighter in side by side pictures.

Since I was curious, I created a 8player host and started walking through the arena settings.

I'll tell you right now its NOT easy, and the one thing I wanted most to do was turn the sun effects back up a bit I couldn't do.

But, by the time I was done just adjusting the arena color settings.
I could see again.

However, the Dark green predominate on the terrain needs to be lightened.
Its TOO dark, its too close to the tree color, you can't distinquish them until they are in your windshield. The sunlight needs to be turned back up.
I don't care if planes can see ground vehicles. This is Aces High, not Tank Wars.

Lighten up the sky color, its almost purple. Looks like late sunset when its high noon. Lighten up the haze color from blue/purple to a bit more gray.
And set it farther out.

Conclusions, it needs changes, fixes, adaptations, and because he did it all specifically for the GV's, we are not going to get them.

Offline Fulmar

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3936
      • Aces High Movie Database
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2007, 09:31:52 AM »
Granted I think the terrain is a bit dark, I think its an improvement IMO.  The old terrain wasn as eye sore with random trees in poor looking hedgerows.

Sure any terrain looks 'good' from afar at 10,000 feet.  But when you're on the deck I've seen better ground trees in games likes US Navy Fighers '97.  Plus I didn't need to see a farm every 3 acres.

 I've played many of games in the past and been a part of many gaming communities and there are few times when a change is made to a game that it is embraced by open arms (no matter if it was truely a good change or a bad change).  Granted not as many people cry for change in this community as in ones I've been a part of in the past.

The simplified terrain is about the only way to attempt to please the majority.  A lot of pilots are not running top of the line machinse and to graphically make a more eye pleasing terrain, a simplified texture is needed.  Now if this was a single player game, I bet HTC would have put in a lot of more graphical options to custom tailor the fan base, but since its a massive online flight sim you need to cut back on detail.  Think of how many MMORPGs are low detail compared to counterparts that are singleplayer.
In game callsign: not currently flying
Flying off and on since Warbirds
Aces High Movies available at www.derstuhl.net/ahmd2 - no longer aceshighmovies.com - not updated either

Offline yanksfan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1298
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2007, 09:37:21 AM »
I have played around adjusting everything i can think of to adjust, some people are getting headachs, i get eye strian, after 30 minutes or so my eyes are burning, I like the new stuff, but the shading has got to get fixed, im sure it will be soon we get some sort of adjustment.
 it's good stuff we got in this update, more will be coming, i read Fester is going to rework some maps, every thing will get back to a happy medium in time, but it will take time, Hopefully they will address the shadeing issues in a patch or by tweeking the arena settings but i think the biggest problem is a new system on old maps which someone had said earlier.

 For me, I like the changes, but hope they do something with the contrast and the shadeing b4 my eyes burn out of my head.
ESTES- will you have my baby?
Ack-Ack -As long as we can name the baby Shuffler if it's a boy and Mensa if it's a girl.

80th FS "Headhunters"

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2007, 10:17:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Those three pictures really doesn't do justice for the previous and current versions of AH2. The only reason the AH1 pic looks great, is because Widewing caught a great 'photo-realistic' angle shot from a player-made terrain using player-made textures. For those of you who hadn't seen AH1, trust me, it doesn't look that good. Especially, the default HTC made terrains look a lot worse off.

 The same could be said about the current terrain. The texture tones and colors should be adjusted, but a lot of the awkward feeling comes not from terrain itself, but from the fact (IMO) that the terrain wasn't really "designed", but rather converted from the old format to new format.

 IMO the quick-converted NDisles in the MA currently, probably shows less than 50% potential of what the new terrains can really do if a map was really designed from scratch.


You realize that the majority of terrains in AH1 and in AH2 prior to the breakup of the MA were player generated, right?

Nonetheless, let's compare the NDisles terrains from the same three versions of the game. I set gamma (not adjustable in AH1) to 1.0 for 2.09 and 2.10. This gives the the most honest comparison possible by avoiding custom settings. The field is A18.







My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline SlapShot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9121
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2007, 10:35:16 AM »
so away I go with FesterMA2 it will be an ETO themed map and if it is a success I will then create Ozkansas2 a PTO map.

That's fantastic !!!
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline DREDIOCK

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17773
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2007, 11:39:11 AM »
Now if they could just take the threee versions and somehow combine them all together.
It would look as stunning fromt eh air as it does from the ground


Widewing.

the second two pictures you posted point out exactly what I am trying to get at (in other threads) when I speak of subtle shadowing.

compare the last two pics and you can see subtle shadows that point out differences in terrain elevation. Sight rises and depressions
Bends at the bases of where the mountains come down and meet the almost sea level terrain. etc.

Perhaps someone who is good at photo shop can make the second photo alomst transparent and over lay it on top of the third.

I think you would end up with something truely stunning
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Meatwad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12727
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2007, 12:07:43 PM »
MMMM square tent style VH's :)
See Rule 19- Do not place sausage on pizza.
I am No-Sausage-On-Pizza-Wad.
Das Funkillah - I kill hangers, therefore I am a funkiller. Coming to a vulchfest near you.
You cant tie a loop around 400000 lbs of locomotive using a 2 foot rope - Drediock on fat women

Offline Citabria

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5149
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2007, 12:15:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
so away I go with FesterMA2 it will be an ETO themed map and if it is a success I will then create Ozkansas2 a PTO map.

That's fantastic !!!


heres FesterMA2 under construction... all but maybe one or two airfields are placed where I want them. no GV fields added yet and only one port/cv placed.

after I have everything where I want it I will photoshop an elevation file with some USGS elevation greyscales in a few spots where able.

it wont have any texture layout or variation till the new terrain editor is available. all the land is just one big green blob right now :D

Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2007, 12:37:40 PM »
What's the min spacing on fields again?

I'd be deeply appreciative if you could have at least half the airfields at min spacing. It makes for much better fighting in the EW and to a slightly lesser extent the MW.

I could probably just say the closer the better for all fields and leave it at that.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Citabria

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5149
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2007, 12:42:56 PM »
about the same as the origional FesterMA no fields intended for linear base to base fighting are more than 25-27 miles apart and no bases are closer than 17-20 miles minimum. short hops. the target spacing was around 25 miles which is HT's prefered distance.
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline DREDIOCK

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17773
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2007, 01:13:11 PM »
Abou the only problem I see is the placement of YELLOW HQ
At Paris

Problem is whichever country has the yellow area is sure to be without Dar on pretty short order.
considering the top two countries tend to like to gang up and over run whichever country is on the bottom.
You might want to consider moving Yellow HQ to Rome

Just a thought

another thought

If your going to leave it at Paris Perhaps you might want to place a couple of ammo factories very near it as to give it added protection
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Citabria

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5149
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2007, 01:19:34 PM »
there will be a gv base that will be in front of it will be uncapturable and the large airbase behind it also uncapturable. I still have to figure out how to set them up with the little red outline. the thing can be rebuilt in 5 minutes till the map resets with those fixed bases so its not as critical a thing as it was in the olden days of aces high.  it is intended for the yellow country to be the easiest to defeat though any country has a fair chance of being defeated. Im sure it will get bombed. I want it to. buffs will gravitate to it like moths to a light just to knock it down. if your up for a bit of roll playing its not far fetched to hope that that HQ will be enough to get constant organized bomber raids on berlin that are heavy enought to pretty much anticipate having to fly cap missions above it. :D

its hard to tell with all the distortion but the yellow HQ is actually sitting about where berlin was :D
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 01:23:50 PM by Citabria »
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Saxman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9155
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2007, 02:02:42 PM »
I REALLY need to get back to work on ComSoPac.

You Europhiles. :p
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Terrain Evolution: AH1.11, AH2.09, AH2.10
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2007, 02:12:21 PM »
Quote
Nonetheless, let's compare the NDisles terrains from the same three versions of the game. I set gamma (not adjustable in AH1) to 1.0 for 2.09 and 2.10. This gives the the most honest comparison possible by avoiding custom settings. The field is A18.


 There are two things at work here.

 One, is the issue concerning the brightness/contrast of the terrain textures, which I believe no one objects that it's gotta be fixed.

 Two, is how each of the various features that makes up a 'terrain' is depicted by the terrain system itself, and in this aspect the changes between each of the three depiction methods are undoubtably for the better, not the worse.


 Take a look, for example, some the pics NHawk posted. Old AH1 had a very simplistic method of depicting the terrains by crude, flat, polygons. The 'detail' and 'feel' of the terrains were entirely dependant on what kind of textures were used. The more 'photorealistic' the quality of textures, the better it looked at altitude, especially when you were looking at it from the exact angle which the 'photo' was taken at.

 However, the moment you close in, get lower near the ground, all the "beauty" is entirely lost and it becomes nothing but a big mush of pictures viewed from a wrong angle. AH1 terrain is essentially a cardboard box glued with photos printed out from Google-EARTH.

 Initial versions of AH2, upto the previous version, was an attempt to depict 3D terrains as the importance of the ground-war aspect of the game grew. AH became more and more of a "WW2-feel virtual war", instead of the simple A2A combat sim with a tad bit of territorial land-grab flavor.

 The current terrain format as of this version, IMO is an attempt to maintain the principles laid out by the initial AH2 terrain scheme, while at the same time cleaning up and optimizing many of the issues that plagued it, with an added bonus to improving overall aesthetic quality of it both from the air, and land.

 Somehwere along the way they made the same mistake as AH2 Beta, where the terrain texture was way too dark for most of the gamers. Another mistake is how the shadows of the forest/trees are handled, and many of the current terrains in the MA were designed in previous versions, and were simply converted to the new scheme.  

 However, these problems are relatively easily fixed, and once the fix and tweak is done, in the end the potential lying with this new terrain scheme is lightyears ahead of what we had in AH1. This, is something people viewing your pictures should not be confused about.

 In the end, after the current problems are addressed, a player-designed map will ultimately reach much higher levels of aesthetic depiction, which IMO qualifies the 'evolution' of the AH terrains as "something for the better".