Author Topic: Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST  (Read 4039 times)

Offline Viking

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #165 on: April 22, 2007, 11:34:58 PM »
Damn! :mad: (;))

Offline Elfie

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #166 on: April 23, 2007, 01:03:46 AM »
I knew that would make your day. :t
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Offline Toad

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #167 on: April 23, 2007, 08:15:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
All of the above. You couldn’t refute my arguments, so you attack my person and my credibility.


In your view, no one can refute your arguments in the same way that no one can refute Boroda's argument that Stalin was a really good guy that never hurt any of his own citizens.

Another way of putting it is you fully believe your own press releases.

I have not attacked your person and your lack of credibility is your own problem.

I've merely stated my view of what you spew out. How can anyone take seriously someone who has said he'd take more pleasure in seeing the US fail than in the bad guys losing?

That pretty much sums you up as a person and it says a lot about your character. It is not complimentary. So, in my view, you've personally attacked yourself.
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Offline babek-

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #168 on: April 23, 2007, 08:31:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
how many different ethnic and religious groups live in the USA?

if they can live together in the USA, they can live together in Iraq, or africa or bosina or wherever.

i don't buy this "i have to kill my neighbor because he is different".



You cant compare the different ethnical + religious groups of the USA with those of Iraq.

1. Since the creation of Iraq one group supressed the others. The sunnites -> the shi ites and the kurds.

That didnt happened in the USA.

2. There was NEVER during the short history of Iraq peace and cooperation between these groups.
Just a more and more perfect supressing regime, which could have continued for decades if the US-regime of Bush has not eliminated Saddam and his regime and loyal suppressing forces like the secret police groups and the republican guards.

That also never happened in the USA.

In the USA the different ethnical and religious groups came to this country to build a new future. So they were entering a new country or born into a country with a future and often they also mixed their race and culture.

In Iraq 3 ethnical and racial different groups werde forced to live together in a new country called iraq and nearly after a century they still have isolated themself in their 3 different groups.

So I dont think that you can compare Iraq with the USA or any other traditional multi-ethnical-country.

The best example are the election votes.

There were pure sunnite, pure shi ite, pure kurd parties and also political parties which wanted to build a bridge between the different groups.
Just check how much votes went to the first groups and what remained for the "unification" groups.

The shi ites vote like their mullahs order them in the friday prayer.
The sunnites also - they follow the order of their clan-chiefs and sunnite religious rulers.
And the kurds vote for kurdish parties.

There is no iraqi people. And so the fightings will go on, because the groups are supported by other nations who have their own political interest in the region.

Offline Gunthr

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #169 on: April 23, 2007, 08:39:45 AM »
Quote
You have lost. The terrorists have won a tremendous victory. It's only a matter of time. - Viking


got schadenfreude, Viking?  i think its related to envy in your case.  we have a hollywood full of it over here, where its more related to a hatred of Bush.  

at any rate,  we continue to have long-term goals in Iraq and in the region, as we should.  The US wants stability, flowing oil and security against terrorism.  that isn't going to change.  

we may be in Iraq a bit longer than you may think, in spite of what certain US politicians say in public to keep their "progressive" socialist liberal supporters happy.
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Offline Viking

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #170 on: April 23, 2007, 09:19:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
In your view, no one can refute your arguments in the same way that no one can refute Boroda's argument that Stalin was a really good guy that never hurt any of his own citizens.

Another way of putting it is you fully believe your own press releases.

I have not attacked your person and your lack of credibility is your own problem.

I've merely stated my view of what you spew out. How can anyone take seriously someone who has said he'd take more pleasure in seeing the US fail than in the bad guys losing?

That pretty much sums you up as a person and it says a lot about your character. It is not complimentary. So, in my view, you've personally attacked yourself.


Again you attack my person and character rather than my arguments. You even admit it by saying: “That pretty much sums you up as a person and it says a lot about your character.” :)

Now if we can get back to the real issue you’re so desperately trying to avoid: You were telling us all how the Vietnamese prison camps were “bloodbaths” because they had an unnatural death-rate almost as high as US state prisons. Care to explain? :)

Offline Viking

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #171 on: April 23, 2007, 09:29:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
got schadenfreude, Viking?  


I must admit that being proven right in my predictions of 3-4 years ago, and seeing my bitter opponents here proven wrong does give me a certain amount of satisfaction.


Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
i think its related to envy in your case


Now why of all people would I envy your lot?


Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
at any rate,  we continue to have long-term goals in Iraq and in the region, as we should.  The US wants stability, flowing oil and security against terrorism.  that isn't going to change.  


No I guess not. However, having goals is all good and fun, but achieving them is a different matter entirely. And achieving your intended goals in the Middle East is something the United States historically never has been really good at. And it doesn’t seem like that’s about to change in the foreseeable future.

Offline Toad

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #172 on: April 23, 2007, 11:10:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Again you attack my person and character rather than my arguments. You even admit it by saying: “That pretty much sums you up as a person and it says a lot about your character.” :)

Now if we can get back to the real issue you’re so desperately trying to avoid: You were telling us all how the Vietnamese prison camps were “bloodbaths” because they had an unnatural death-rate almost as high as US state prisons. Care to explain? :)



Well, if saying the sun rises in the East is attacking the character of the sun, I could possibly understand your reasoning. I merely see it as stating the obvious.

You've undoubtedly heard the old Harry Truman response to the reporter who shouted "Give 'em hell, Harry"? Harry replied, "I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.” I think that fits this little exchange between you and I perfectly.

As for the prison camps, please review the thread. I've never taken a position in this thread on whether or not it was a "bloodbath". I merely tried to get the participants in the bloodbath debate to define their terms, something that neither your nor Aqua ever really did. I suspected that neither one of you had the remotest idea how many died and were just playing semantic games.

Which is exactly the way it turned out.

Oh and your comparison to US prisons is another example of your character. You know this is not an apples to apples comparison in the least and you know that.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Maverick

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #173 on: April 23, 2007, 02:08:16 PM »
Toad, gscholz is back in his full troll mode. No matter what you say he's just going to disagree with you and nothing to back it up. Stop feeding the troll, it's not worth the effort.
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Offline Bodhi

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #174 on: April 23, 2007, 02:09:59 PM »
Why is this thread still open?
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Offline straffo

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #175 on: April 23, 2007, 02:14:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Why is this thread still open?


why should it be closed ?

Offline Viking

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #176 on: April 23, 2007, 05:49:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Well, if saying the sun rises in the East is attacking the character of the sun, I could possibly understand your reasoning. I merely see it as stating the obvious.

You've undoubtedly heard the old Harry Truman response to the reporter who shouted "Give 'em hell, Harry"? Harry replied, "I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.” I think that fits this little exchange between you and I perfectly.


As long as your argument is about your opponents person or character it is an ad hominem attack … no matter if you are telling the truth or not. If I were to liken you to Professor Goebbels I would be making a personal attack. If I were to say that you are so old that maybe your mental faculties are compromised by age I would also be making a personal attack. Whether those two statements are true or not does not change the fact that they are attacks on your person.

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ad ho•mi•nem      /æd ˈhɒmənəm‑ˌnɛm, ɑd-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ad hom-uh-nuhm‑nem, ahd-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective

1. appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason.  

2. attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.  




Quote
Originally posted by Toad
As for the prison camps, please review the thread. I've never taken a position in this thread on whether or not it was a "bloodbath". I merely tried to get the participants in the bloodbath debate to define their terms, something that neither your nor Aqua ever really did. I suspected that neither one of you had the remotest idea how many died and were just playing semantic games.



 So you’re saying it wasn’t a bloodbath and thus proving me right? Or are you saying it was a bloodbath and thus proving your last post a lie? :)

Offline Viking

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #177 on: April 23, 2007, 05:51:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
why should it be closed ?


Because the wrong people are winning. ;)  (Well … the debate was won pages ago. All that is left is the whining and personal attacks by the sore losers.)

Offline ghi

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #178 on: April 23, 2007, 07:15:26 PM »
The american peoples don"t want to admire the apocalyptic slaughter masterpice of their tax $$ and tacite ignorant acceptance of Iraq war

 I been watching , mostly  Euro News channels on sattelite, but
 i have CNN,Fox also , +Sirius in my car
 Last week, most of the  news began with >>"Iraq, 1.2 milion of barefoot, starving, refugees heading to  Sirya, +1more million  to other  middle east countries,100+deaths,and other car bombing rich in grafic" Danfur!!
watching on this new wide tvs, killed my apettite for dinner, good for weight lose,"

on BBC last week, they said "the american news crew comes to bombing sittes after they clean up the intestines and other boody parts and wash the blood on the streets, but anyway they show only the "Google earth" position of the bombing sitte"
 But, i was  tired with this and switched on CNN/Fox,::
>....Breaking News!!! .. a dozen of greedy cats died due to "pet food failure " , and they talk about this all over news/ news talk shows all the week,
  diversion or brain wash??!
 Lucky pets!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 07:38:25 PM by ghi »

Offline john9001

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Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST
« Reply #179 on: April 23, 2007, 07:30:00 PM »
what are you talking about?