Global warming update

[Angus]

"COAL MINE SEVEN, Svalbard, Norway (Reuters) - Fossils of a hippopotamus-like creature on an Arctic island show the climate was once like that of Florida, giving clues to risks from modern global warming, a scientist said."

Guess how old it is.
The oldest parts of my icy country also had big forests once, I have fossilized leaves in my drawer.
The poles do shift around, but this time the ice caps are just leaving.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

For you who doubt the human impact on this planet, dig up the first color photos taken of earth from the orbit.

Now compare them to photos taken now. You'll notice that the deep blue shade of the oceans has turned to grey or brownish shade of blue. Pollution folks.

If the color of the sea darkens just 1% it probably absorbs more solar energy per day into the sea than the humans produce all in all.

And with fossil findings.. well the continents do move a little.

[Angus]

Ah, just remembered an argument put forth on the other (now closed thread), which was the impact of the ocean's CO2 bindings. (The poster did indeed bring up some useful and logical points).
Anyway, as much as the life of the sea brings to the balance, our co2 ppm's are still rising fast, and heading for a record.
It was interesting to see what was posted here before, that the SL was once 100 metres higher. That would mean no polar caps at all (?) and unsurvivable conditions on barren land near the middle. It also roughly confirms how high the SL would be without caps. How many of you guys live above 330 feet?
That would put the doomsday theory to rest (Venus atmosphere), however the impact of massive forests is yet to be considered, since they have a great cooling effect.
So, in short, good news. And yet not. For if we keep pumping greenhouse gases, the caps will melt, the methane stored in the permafrost will be released, AND we have an all time low of forests, we will have a setup that hasn't been here for hundreds of millions of years. And back then, things were indeed wild. If you then add the increased solar activity to the equation, - and thereby or as well the natural upswing in temperature that sme claim, it makes things a lot worse. So, worse than bad. Oh my.
You see, polluted oceans as well as deforestation, spiced with greenhouse gases and dressed with raised solar activity adds up to a devil soup. To avoid that sour dinner, more maneuvers have to be made.

[Odee]

Question:

If the gawdamned planet is warming, then why are there a hundred or so ships stuck in ice near Nova Scotia?  

Why is the Southern Ice pack growing?

Why did it snow in APril in Georgia and the Carolinas?

Man has about as much chance of making lasting environmental changes to this planet as does the dinosaur making a sudden come back.  We can do things locally, sure, but globaly...?  No way, simply because Earth, and Mom Nature are way to big to take on and be beaten by puny, arrogant, insignificant locust of man.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Originally posted by Odee
Question:

If the gawdamned planet is warming, then why are there a hundred or so ships stuck in ice near Nova Scotia?  

Why is the Southern Ice pack growing?

Why did it snow in APril in Georgia and the Carolinas?

Man has about as much chance of making lasting environmental changes to this planet as does the dinosaur making a sudden come back.  We can do things locally, sure, but globaly...?  No way, simply because Earth, and Mom Nature are way to big to take on and be beaten by puny, arrogant, insignificant locust of man.

Freak weather patterns are just typical effect of the shift in balance. Just wait for the next summer and the potential new record of the type 5 tornadoes.

[Eagler]

dunno about the rest of the world, but here in the states Global Warming is only about politics ... another hack job on this administration & the big business which is setting record high markets here and around the world

[Meatwad]

Global warming is caused by Rush spewing his political nonsense gibberish

[hyena426]

You really don't think that Eric went into those territories in the winter do you?

either did the history channel ..lol..they stayed the night there in sleeping bags..it was sunny and green...they said it had ice all year long in that port...you couldnt get there by boat anymore...but back in erics day..it was a clear port..that was on in search of with that josh guy..indiana jones wanna be guy:P,,lol

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Laurie
Preparing to join the armed forces and the army itself is something that has to be there, it's these big skyscrapers tha leave lights on ALL night that needs to be stopped.

This only happens in America?

I agree with you the airplane quip was a cheap shot. I wish you much success in your quest to beome an RAF pilot.

[hyena426]

a change in climate in the North Atlantic led to an increase in sea-ice, making communication with Europe difficult,


When Eric the Red led the Norwegian Vikings to Greenland in the late 900s, it was an ice-free farm country--grass for sheep and cattle, open water for fishing, a livable climate--so good a colony that by 1100 there were 3,000 people living there. Then came the Ice Age. By 1400, average temperatures had declined by 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit, the glaciers had crushed southward across the farmlands and harbors, and the Vikings did not survive.

Such global temperature fluctuations are not surprising, for looking back in history we see a regular pattern of warming and cooling. From 200 B.C. to A.D. 600 saw the Roman Warming period; from 600 to 900, the cold period of the Dark Ages; from 900 to 1300 was the Medieval warming period; and 1300 to 1850, the Little Ice Age.

During the 20th century the earth did indeed warm--by 1 degree Fahrenheit. But a look at the data shows that within the century temperatures varied with time: from 1900 to 1910 the world cooled; from 1910 to 1940 it warmed; from 1940 to the late 1970s it cooled again, and since then it has been warming. Today our climate is 1/20th of a degree Fahrenheit warmer than it was in 2001.

[lazs2]

engine... why did you lie about what I said?  I think it is because of the hate.. the hate those who have science for a religion and man as god have for anything that says that man is powerless in the universe.

you lie because you are angry and don't want debate.  You want only your view to be out there.

The planet was much warmer before.. we may reach that point again.. then again.. it may get very much cooler first.

Of course man has an effect on the weather... putting an ice cube in the back yard has an effect... setting off nukes in volcanoes has an effect...  how much?   Who frigging  knows?   It isn't enough tho that we can see any real numbers tho is it?  Hell.. we can air condition a building... surely we can control the planets weather... but why stop there?   regulate the suns energy!

"significant"  that is the number they use.. to some...  parts per billion are "significant"... to a lawyer... "soon" can mean 5 years.

Parts of the land that used to be bare are now covered with ice.   They may get bare again... then again.. they may not.

ITS THE SUN STUPID

Now... if you handwringers and dooms sayers want to work on a way to regulate the suns activity (so long as I don't have to be involved)....  fine with me.

If you want to starve millions of people to death and regulate us all into poverty in the name of the holy scientist "man made global warming" religion tho... You may have a fight on your hands.

The scientists in the documentary "swindle"  (available on youtube) seem to be convinced that the evidence is not there for man made global warming in any "significant" amount..  we are a minor player here (sorry to you "man as god" types).

Get over yourselves.   You aren't that important and your priests the scientists are not all in agreement... some who are the real experts in the field are honest and say it is a big scam.

You are being duped.    I know that is hard to admit but it has happened to all of us...

I almost believed the "man made global ice age" that all the scientists and really cool people were touting in the 70's that was going to happen here..  we made fun of or got mad at anyone who said that the data didn't add up.

So what happened to the ice age that the scientists said would be here by the 1990's?   where is it?   didn't happen so we just burned the books on that one?  

What if we had starved a few million people to save the planet from an ice age back then?   would it have been worth it?   Must be... hell we don't have an ice age do we?

And that is the point... they need to get the ball rolling soon before the sun activity changes again and everyone forgets about man made global warming.

But.. they are not stupid..  they have shifted to "man made global climate change"

How perfect!   no matter what the sun does... they are covered and their religion can't laughed at.   They have learned their lesson well and are harvesting the rubes in a much more clever way these days.

You guys might just be too stupid and naive to live at that.

lazs

[Odee]

Originally posted by lazs2
engine... ... You want only your view to be out there.

...And that is the point... they need to get the ball rolling soon before the sun activity changes again and everyone forgets about man made global warming.

But.. they are not stupid..  they have shifted to "man made global climate change"

How perfect!   no matter what the sun does... they are covered and their religion can't laughed at.   They have learned their lesson well and are harvesting the rubes in a much more clever way these days.

You guys might just be too stupid and naive to live at that.

lazs

Very well put mate.

MrRipleyH: I am going to hold you to that prediction.  then laugh when it turns out wrong.

[lazs2]

and laurie...

We all have access to the same data..   Yet.. some believe that something has to be done about the "significant" man made global war...er.. "climate change" and others don't.

It seems to go by country with one thing in common.. those who are being told that other countries are to blame and must pay are the ones who's citizens believe in the religion the most.  

You must have seen the "swindle" documentary on your bbc... what did you think of it?

How did it compare to the soap opera of algores drama queen "documentary"?

The difference was striking to me and others... algore pleading and threatening and crying and the swindle guys showing pure science.

lazs

[Sabre]

The whole man-made, CO2-induced GW thing has already cost billions, and with questionable (and I'm being generous here) results. From the article here: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/48e334ce-f355-11db-9845-000b5df10621.html

Companies and individuals rushing to go green have been spending millions on “carbon credit” projects that yield few if any environmental benefits.

A Financial Times investigation has uncovered widespread failings in the new markets for greenhouse gases, suggesting some organisations are paying for emissions reductions that do not take place.

Others are meanwhile making big profits from carbon trading for very small expenditure and in some cases for clean-ups that they would have made anyway.

The growing political salience of environmental politics has sparked a “green gold rush”, which has seen a dramatic expansion in the number of businesses offering both companies and individuals the chance to go “carbon neutral”, offsetting their own energy use by buying carbon credits that cancel out their contribution to global warming.

The burgeoning regulated market for carbon credits is expected to more than double in size to about $68.2bn by 2010, with the unregulated voluntary sector rising to $4bn in the same period.

Isn't it interesting that Al Gore owns stock in just such a carbon-credit trading company?  He claims to live a carbon-neutral life, but uses 20 times the energy of your average American.  His claim in part is supported by the fact that he buys carbon credits to offset his profligate energy usage...from his own company.  So, there's money to made (and lost) in the GW shell game, but that money is being wasted by those those shelling it out in the name of GW.  This does not include the billions spent trying to model and prove GW is man-made (and effort that has yielded millions of lines of computer code that no more reflects reality than a superhero comic book.

[Sabre]

From: http://www.standard-freeholder.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=502332&catname=Local%20News&classif=

Global warming debate 'irrational': scientists

Stephanie Stein  /  Standard-Freeholder
Local News - Thursday, April 26, 2007 @ 10:00

The current debate about global warming is "completely irrational," and people need to start taking a different approach, say two Ottawa scientists.

Carleton University science professor Tim Patterson said global warming will not bring about the downfall of life on the planet.

Patterson said much of the up-to-date research indicates that "changes in the brightness of the sun" are almost certainly the primary cause of the warming trend since the end of the "Little Ice Age" in the late 19th century. Human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2), the gas of concern in most plans to curb climate change, appear to have little effect on global climate, he said.

"I think the proof in the pudding, based on what (media and governments) are saying, (is) we're about three quarters of the way (to disaster) with the doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere," said Patterson. "The world should be heating up like crazy by now, and it's not. The temperatures match very closely with the solar cycles."
Billions of taxpayers' dollars are spent to control the emissions of this benign gas, in the mistaken belief that they can stop climate change, he said.

"The only constant about climate is change," said Patterson.

Patterson said money could be better spent on places like Africa.

"All the money wasted on Kyoto in a year could provide clean drinking water for Africa," said Patterson. "We're into a new era of science with the discussion of solar forces. Eventually, Kyoto is going to fall by the wayside. In the meantime, I'm worried we're going to spend millions that could have been spent on something better like air pollution."