Uprising in Estonia

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Come up with a source for a better number.

what, another straw man? ok, here http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Sixpence
what, another straw man? ok, here http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html

No straw man.  I quoted a reliable, widely accepted source.  You had some exception to IBC without any source to back up your argument, and I asked you for a source.

According to your site, they take exception to IBC because "IBC's methodology ignores even English-language media reports of Iraqi civilians' deaths, unless matching reports of the same casualties are published by at least "two independent agencies.""

Having two sources agree seems to be reasonable to me.  Otherwise I would have accept as fact that:

Bat Boy discovered sleeping in swimming pool

(Las Vegas, WWN)
"He was lethargic at first," Eric Ricarrdi recalled in a Weekly World News interview, "but he started screeching from dusk to dawn. I slip food under the garage door to him once a day. He eats mostly table scraps and bugs, but he's starting to like the same food my roommate and I eat. He is especially fond of Spam and applesauce." Zoologist Ron Dillon--the original discoverer of the creature--travels to Las Vegas to recover Batboy and return him to Dillon's laboratory in Wheeling, West Virginia. "We underestimated the creature last time," Dillon says. "We are going to take extra measures to make sure he doesn't escape again."    

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by Boroda
how does your media cover this events? I see drastic difference between Russian TV channels and Euronews.

No surprise there. Obviously.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Boroda

People here are sincere now, it's not clumsy Soviet propaganda, they touched sacred things now.

So why did they start riots, when at Moscow's Himk during April the remains of six SOviet pilots who died at war were dug up and the gravestones moved?

They're building a road over the graves!

That's blaspmeny!

Vladimir Upes of Communist party even notified that this was dishonoring of the graves. Where are the riots? The protests? Think! A road - over the soldiers' graves!

[Vudak]

Originally posted by Boroda
Let's not speak about Warsaw uprising, I don't feel ashamed that Soviet command didn't spare precious lives there for a bunch of loosers sitting in London.

In 1938 Poland didn't permit Soviet assistance to CZ mostly because it got it's share together with nazis. And in 1945 Stalin had to insist on re-creating a new Polish state in Potsdam, when "allies" were against it... Not even speaking about so-called "baltic states" that are a geo-political nonsence, given to Russian Empire by Sweden, and then a puppet "principate" of the German reich in late-WWI.

Man, Boroda, you just swallow this stuff hook line and sinker, huh?

For me to sound like you, I'd have to go around insisting that George Washington cut down that cherry tree, Columbus was the first person to discover America, and that the Pilgrims and Indians lived happily ever after, the end.

Read "Rising: 44" for starters, then the pertinent pages of Churchill's "Second World War."  Neither cast a particularly good light on either the USA, either, so it's not just glorious western propaganda, I'm afraid.

[Estel]

Originally posted by Suave
You yourself said that they are exuming the remains to move them to a new memorial. Perhaps you don't know what the word fake means. Not to mention they LOST the remains.

Could you imagine how much worse the idiots would riot if it happened in a former part of the USSR?

I believe, that I don't know what does "fake" mean. But also I know, what was that memorial before. That pilots were buried near the factory perimeter wall. Exactly in 2 meters from it. That time there wasn't a plant, it was a field on a side of wood. The factory was built later. In last few years due to water pipes leakage there raised a problem to save that place. Because of the water, the ground pieces began moving down. And the only what to save the place was to exume them and bury them in THE PROPER PLACE. Not at factory wall. But at the center of the park. And to create the new. Perfect monument. And this was done. Nobody lost the remains. They are still in military morgue labratory. If you don't know this, it means only that it is not your ****ing business.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
No straw man.  I quoted a reliable, widely accepted source.  You had some exception to IBC without any source to back up your argument, and I asked you for a source.

According to your site, they take exception to IBC because "IBC's methodology ignores even English-language media reports of Iraqi civilians' deaths, unless matching reports of the same casualties are published by at least "two independent agencies.""

Having two sources agree seems to be reasonable to me.  Otherwise I would have accept as fact that:

Wow, from a little straw man, to this

Bat Boy discovered sleeping in swimming pool

(Las Vegas, WWN)
"He was lethargic at first," Eric Ricarrdi recalled in a Weekly World News interview, "but he started screeching from dusk to dawn. I slip food under the garage door to him once a day. He eats mostly table scraps and bugs, but he's starting to like the same food my roommate and I eat. He is especially fond of Spam and applesauce." Zoologist Ron Dillon--the original discoverer of the creature--travels to Las Vegas to recover Batboy and return him to Dillon's laboratory in Wheeling, West Virginia. "We underestimated the creature last time," Dillon says. "We are going to take extra measures to make sure he doesn't escape again."

You are weaving quite the straw man now.

Here is a quote from your site

"What we are attempting to provide is a credible compilation of civilian deaths that have been reported by recognized sources. Our maximum therefore refers to reported deaths — which can only be a sample of true deaths [if] one assumes that every civilian death has been reported. It is likely that many if not most civilian casualties will go unreported by the media. That is the sad nature of war."



And you take this over The Lancet study? You obviously didn't read the study. What it does is take the mortality rate before the conflict and after. That takes account for deteriorating health system, no clean water, etc., which is a result of military intervention.

Basically the ibc is run by a mom & pop who have full time jobs and read the paper.

So, basically what your saying is that if the National Enquirer and The National Examiner run this story

Bat Boy discovered sleeping in swimming pool

(Las Vegas, WWN)
"He was lethargic at first," Eric Ricarrdi recalled in a Weekly World News interview, "but he started screeching from dusk to dawn. I slip food under the garage door to him once a day. He eats mostly table scraps and bugs, but he's starting to like the same food my roommate and I eat. He is especially fond of Spam and applesauce." Zoologist Ron Dillon--the original discoverer of the creature--travels to Las Vegas to recover Batboy and return him to Dillon's laboratory in Wheeling, West Virginia. "We underestimated the creature last time," Dillon says. "We are going to take extra measures to make sure he doesn't escape again."

Then it's true?

[Sixpence]

lol, nm, i read your post wrong:o

[Reschke]

The only time I heard anything about it was while I was in Germany for the past two weeks. It was on CNN International and was never anything more than a 30 second brief with no video. I have to say that for the US news media I agree with E25280 in his comments about Afghanistan, Iraq and hollywood screw ups.

[Fishu]

Russians are taking the issue to the UN
I guess the UN is the next evil fascist organization when they don't take any action against Estonia.

Looks like everyone who does not act according to the wishes of the russian leaders are fascists.

Russia seems to be the biggest existing fascist state at the moment.

[bikekil]

Why it's worth a discussion?
Free and Independent country decided to move a statue elsewhere.
Some say, the statue represents a Soviet slavery times, Other say, it represents the army that gave the land the freedon - who is right?
I'd say that everyone is entitled to have his own oppinion on this.

Then another idependent country (Russia) don't agree with this and have another opinion. Are they entitled? Sure they are!

Can Russia do anything about it? Not more then duscuss or take any action they want (legal one). It should be accepted by everyone.

Still, Estonia have the independent right to not only move, but to remove anything that belogs to them as they like - so why we are discussing it?

Cheers,
bikekil

[MrRiplEy[H]]

The estonian consulate was attacked and they tried to assault the Estonian ambassador. They wrecked the swedish ambassadors diplomatic car when he visited the Estonians.

Russians do not honor anything, not even the diplomatic immunity of other countries it seems. They think so big of themselves and demand respect - they'd better start acting respectable first.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Wow, from a little straw man, to this

Do you know what a straw man fallacy is?

How is my asking for a source to back up your objection to IBC casualty numbers a logical fallacy?

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Sixpence
So, basically what your saying is that if the National Enquirer and The National Examiner run this story

Bat Boy discovered sleeping in swimming pool

Then it's true?

Back when the anthrax letters were going around, a specific Florida publishing company recieved several.  Turns out that most of the national supermarket tabloids (including the two you site) are put out by this same publishing company...  so no, these would not be two independant sources, and would not fit the IBC criterion.

However, a single source would be sufficient for your site to declare the batboy exists.

[Holden McGroin]

One last reply...

Originally posted by Sixpence
And you take this over The Lancet study? You obviously didn't read the study.

Which one? The one of October 29 2004 where the estimated 100,000 deaths or the October 11, 2006 where their estimate balooned to 655,000?

more than half a million in just two 2 years when it took a year an a half of tanks, planes and rockets to kill less than 20% of that number....

Yeah I'll take it over the Lancet study.  The Lancet study doesn't pass the sniff test.  At least the IBC has a consistant metodology and tells you the shortcomings right up front.