Author Topic: Let me play Devils advocate here...  (Read 1393 times)

Offline Hornet33

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Let me play Devils advocate here...
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2007, 11:22:27 AM »
Ya know, I don't really care for Carlos Mencia's comedy, but I happened to be flipping channels the other night and he was on, and I think he has the perfect solution.

Let all the illegal aliens already in the country guard the border. Pay them to do it. BUT.....if one of them lets anyone through, the new person gets to stay and the guy who let him through gets kicked out. No one would get across that way.
AHII Con 2006, HiTech, "This game is all about pissing off the other guy!!"

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2007, 01:00:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
one of the worlds most dangerous obstacle courses...



Yeah, the Rio Grande is mother to cross.

Offline Sting138

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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2007, 01:26:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
they are called "coyotes" not gophers.


They arent worthy of being called coyotes, Actually they are more like "blood sucking leeches" that feed off of the medical and welfare systems that are intended for LEGAL CITIZENS.

Offline Mickey1992

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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2007, 01:33:21 PM »
There was an article in my local paper today about Mexican workers here doing landscaping working on short-term worker visas.  You need to register to read it (http://www.dispatch.com) but here is what I took away from it.

"They paid about $910 each, were tested for drugs and checked for a criminal past. Then they endured a 42-hour bus ride from Monterrey to Columbus.

All for landscaping jobs that pay $8.60 an hour.

It's an opportunity the Mexican men welcome. They are here legally under a federal program that provides short-term visas to semiskilled and unskilled workers. They will return home by year's end, after completing their jobs with Five Seasons Landscaping."

"If we had local people who would be willing to work," Leidecker said, "the need for this type of program would not be around." His company employs 103 people.

Inexperienced young Americans demand $12 to $13 an hour, he said, and the Mexicans not only work for less but have an excellent work ethic.

All the workers say that they regularly wire money home.

================================

The landscaping company is wrong.  There are US citizens willing to do the work, just not for $8.60/hour.  They are correct that if they paid $12 or $13 they could find locals to do the work.  But instead, they hire foreigners, using a federally funded program to do the work (below market wages), AND THEN THE MAJORITY OF THOSE WAGES ARE WIRED OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

If these companies would see the bigger picture and realize that if they paid locals market wages THAT MONEY WOULD STAY IN THE LOCAL ECONOMY.

Offline indy007

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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2007, 01:35:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Yeah, the Rio Grande is mother to cross.


The Rio is the easy part. Wandering around in the desert, not so much. Kills a lot of people. Not to mention the armed bandits that prey on them, and border control agents that make them start all over.

Seems a little tougher than say... The Crucible to me.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 01:43:36 PM by indy007 »

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2007, 02:15:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sting138
They arent worthy of being called coyotes, Actually they are more like "blood sucking leeches" that feed off of the medical and welfare systems that are intended for LEGAL CITIZENS.



the human smugglars are called coyotes.


ack-ack
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Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2007, 02:20:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mickey1992


The landscaping company is wrong.  There are US citizens willing to do the work, just not for $8.60/hour.  They are correct that if they paid $12 or $13 they could find locals to do the work.  But instead, they hire foreigners, using a federally funded program to do the work (below market wages), AND THEN THE MAJORITY OF THOSE WAGES ARE WIRED OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

If these companies would see the bigger picture and realize that if they paid locals market wages THAT MONEY WOULD STAY IN THE LOCAL ECONOMY.


And that landscaping company would probably go out of business if it had to pay $12 or $13 an hour.

The federal program you mentioned is one of the ways that can be used to curb illegal immigration but I guess that's not as fun as talking all macho about blowing up and killing people of which the majority are just looking to better themselves and their families.


ack-ack
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Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2007, 02:58:17 PM »
And that landscaping company would probably go out of business if it had to pay $12 or $13 an hour.

The federal program you mentioned is one of the ways that can be used to curb illegal immigration but I guess that's not as fun as talking all macho about blowing up and killing people of which the majority are just looking to better themselves and their families.


ack-ack
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Ack's right insofar as if ONE business were to try to hire locals for 12-13$ an hour. What would have to be done to fix this, is to make all of company's in that industry step up to the same standard. This of course, would allow them to raise the rates enough to compensate and stay in competition. Of course, this is the catch.

Somebody will cut throats to do whatever they can to get a larger volume of Business/Income. It happens in every industry.

And business owners do not raise wages at the same rate as the climbing cost of living, at least for the working class. Most employers only care if you show up on time and produce for however long they need you to. They don't care when you leave the job at the end of the day, if you go home to a cardboard box under a freeway underpass. They only care about they're profit margin. Whenever someone I know talks about starting up a small business, I tell them cool, you'll have your own sign and business cards, yada yada yada...But I already know, that if they ask me to work for them, my answer is already no. I've worked for friends. You soon find yourself doing little "extra" things that add up to quite a bit of bad blood really quick. Like working overtime on something for free.

Truthfully, I'd say the biggest problem with immigration is The American businessman. They rely on the fact that Illegal workers crossing the border can easily be pushed around, because of the leverage that their status gives an employer. This is how they cut the competition's throat, by cutting the throat's of their own workers.

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2007, 03:00:58 PM »
Another thing too...If things are so bad in Mexico that it's people leave in droves to come up to the U.S., Why has'nt something like a coup or a revolution or a civil war broken out in Mexico???

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2007, 03:20:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3
And that landscaping company would probably go out of business if it had to pay $12 or $13 an hour.

The federal program you mentioned is one of the ways that can be used to curb illegal immigration but I guess that's not as fun as talking all macho about blowing up and killing people of which the majority are just looking to better themselves and their families.


ack-ack
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ack's right insofar as if ONE business were to try to hire locals for 12-13$ an hour. What would have to be done to fix this, is to make all of company's in that industry step up to the same standard. This of course, would allow them to raise the rates enough to compensate and stay in competition. Of course, this is the catch.

Somebody will cut throats to do whatever they can to get a larger volume of Business/Income. It happens in every industry.

And business owners do not raise wages at the same rate as the climbing cost of living, at least for the working class. Most employers only care if you show up on time and produce for however long they need you to. They don't care when you leave the job at the end of the day, if you go home to a cardboard box under a freeway underpass. They only care about they're profit margin. Whenever someone I know talks about starting up a small business, I tell them cool, you'll have your own sign and business cards, yada yada yada...But I already know, that if they ask me to work for them, my answer is already no. I've worked for friends. You soon find yourself doing little "extra" things that add up to quite a bit of bad blood really quick. Like working overtime on something for free.

Truthfully, I'd say the biggest problem with immigration is The American businessman. They rely on the fact that Illegal workers crossing the border can easily be pushed around, because of the leverage that their status gives an employer. This is how they cut the competition's throat, by cutting the throat's of their own workers.


Only a liberal would blame anything on businessmen.  

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the work that these people doing isn't worth the "Living Wage"?  And that we shouldn't force the businesses to pay for their services more then they are worth?
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Offline Mickey1992

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« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2007, 03:28:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the work that these people doing isn't worth the "Living Wage"?  And that we shouldn't force the businesses to pay for their services more then they are worth?


Are you advocating slavery?

Offline indy007

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« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2007, 03:39:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mickey1992
Are you advocating slavery?


I'd say he's advocating not having to pay $12/hr+ for unskilled labor.

The free market is harsh like that.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2007, 03:58:22 PM »
the starting wage at lowes/home depot is $8.50 per hour, i see lots of americans working there.

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2007, 03:58:56 PM »
"I'd say he's advocating not having to pay $12/hr+ for unskilled labor."

" we shouldn't force the businesses to pay for their services more then they are worth?"


the labor market says theres no way there doing hard, unpleasant, dirty work,  if there barely making more than the guys flipping burgers.

the free market is harsh like that.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2007, 04:00:33 PM »
You confuse the word "Hard" with "Difficult."
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"