Oil Prices?

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by Curval
Time for the Ameribarbarians to invade another oil rich country I suppose.  Try not to mess this one up.

The CIA has already overthrown the gov in Chili once, Chileans didn't like that. Then we funded Regan's "vandals", AKA The Contras in Nicaragua... by today's standards the Contras would be terrorists, who like torture. And then of course there were the dozen or so attempts to murder Castro, and the taking out of Noriega

Chavez is uber paranoid because he knows hes next, so why not act out and poke the US with a stick for awhile? its something to do before the CIA comes calling.

[Mr No Name]

I am all for anyone fighting a damned communist anywhere, anytime.

[Pei]

Originally posted by Yeager

Our Motto: Everything we do, we do for YOU

I'm sure there is a song in there somewhere...

[lazs2]

oboe...  how do we push for alternative fuel solutions?  What would you suggest?  that we mandate em like we mandated smog devices in the 70's and had a decade of crap cars and worse smog before tech caught up?

There might be so much pressure that the democrats will have to stop making it impossible to find new oil and allow offshore drilling and drilling in Alaska.

The EPA and democrats might have to loosen restrictions on building new refineries and then fuel prices will stableize.

In the meantime..  we can see our tech move forward on it's own like is will inevitably do.

and tedbr...  the engine that the automotive world thinks is the best engine this year is the LS7 vette motor at 525hp..  I guess we may not be too far behind on the engineering front.

lazs

[midnight Target]

Talk about your revisionist history. I don't know where you were in the '70s lazs, but you certainly don't remember the air back then compared to today. It started getting better as soon as the law began mandating change. No one was going to voluntarily clean up, especially the big car and oil companies.

Anyone who says a CAFE of 45 is impossible is being pretty short sighted.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by bj229r
My BIKE doesnt even get 45 mpg

You need to pedal slower.

[lazs2]

mt... are you saying that the mandates made the 70's cars put out less pollution?    a car that got 20 mpg got 10 after the law.. retrofit smog devices were so bad that your car wouldn't start to drive it home from the mechanics.

Cars would run for 5 minutes after they were shut off.    

What improved air quality were two things, neither of which had anything to do with the smog laws...  first came catalytic converters and then came computer controlled fuel injection..

Smog laws may get some minor credit for catalytic converters (even tho they were invented before the laws) but not for computers getting small and cheap enough to run fuel injection.

What the laws did was destroy the American auto industry.    It was only possible to meet the demands made by politicians if you turned a V8 into a 100 hp dog that got 10 mpg or....  if you had a small 4 cyl engine that was driving a small car.    That was the only way to meet the standards without fuel injection.

America was not geared to build 4 cyl engines or the cars that housed them..  or the drivelines that they powered.

They wasted billions trying to get where the japs already were and then...  computers caught up... fuel injection loved it and cars ran clean... laws or no laws.  by then.. the American auto industry was bleeding from major arteries...

laws or no laws... cars would be running clean today.

lazs

[midnight Target]

Well, lazs. Unfortunately, making stuff up to suit your agenda doesn't mean you have a winning argument, just an interesting one.

According to the ARB analysis, the annual amount of unhealthy air pollution-declined 50 percent in the South Coast Air Basin, home to one-third of the state's population, between 1981 and 1991. During the same time, the highest, peak urban smog (ozone) levels were reduced 25 percent.

The ARB analysis also noted that the air quality improvements were not confined to any one area, but were documented throughout the basin from the coast to the desert.

"Contrary to trends in some other parts of the country, these figures speak for themselves and show that California's effort to improve air quality is well-founded scientifically and is making more progress than other regions of the country," said James D. Boyd, ARB executive officer in releasing the study.

Now I wonder what California had at this time that other States didn't have?  Oh yeah! Stricter smog controls for cars!

But here are the facts:

Chronology of events regarding air quality

Just a couple of highlights....

1965 Reliable measurements of ozone concentrations began to be recorded. The maximum one-hour ozone concentration for the year in the South Coast Air Basin was 0.58 ppm.

1970 CA's population reached 20 million people. Total registered vehicles exceeded 12 million and vMT was 110 billion. Cumulative CA vehicle emissions for NOx and HCs were 1.6 million tons/year.

1971 ARB adopted the first automobile NOx standards in the nation.

1975 The SCAQMD's maximum one-hour ozone concentration recorded was 0.39 ppm. The area exceeded Stage 1 smog alerts (0.20 ppm) on 118 days. The first two-way catalytic converters came into use as part of the ARB's Motor Vehicle Emission Control Program

1976 The South Coast Air Quality Management District was formed. It included portions of Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino counties. ARB limited lead in gasoline.

1980 CA's population reached 24 million people. Total registered vehicles surpassed 17 million and vehicle miles traveled is 155 billion. Cumulative CA vehicle emissions for NOx and HC remain at 1970 levels of 1.6 million tons/year despite a rise of 45 billion in VMT over these 10 years.

[Torque]

they'll keep pushing the envelope when it comes to that morphine drip they have us on.

[LePaul]

Dont forget the gas you use out in Cali.  Its the cleaniest burning version of gasoline in the world.  And as a result of its comlpexity in formulating/producing it....you pay the most.

[midnight Target]

And anyone who thinks that market pressures would have lead us to using that more expensive gasoline is probably sniffing it.

[lazs2]

mt..  how am I making stuff up?   the most strict regulations were in the 70's and by 1981, when you start the real showing of results..   people had switched to tiny little four cyl cars and some of the tech for v8's was getting a little better.

In 74 a 454 cubic inch motor got 8 mpg and created a whopping 175 hp...  By 81 the tech had caught up to the point that a 350 got 190 hp and about 16 mpg.

The biggest improvement is in the mid 80's as you point out.

What significant thing happened in the mid 80's to reduce smog?   more regulation?   more democrats in power?   nope...

computer controlled fuel injection became common.. in just a few short years.. it took over and carbs became almost unheard of.  even cars with carbs were computer controlled...  v8's rose from 150 hp to 300 or more and got upwards to 25 mpg.

It was too late for the car makers tho because the japs had a big headstart in our economy since they ruled from the 70's and early eithties..

Now... japs are building cars that weigh more than 70's chevy station wagons and have 300 or more hp and get 20 mpg.   They are got to evolve slowly while US manufacturers were almost regulated out of existence.

If there had been no regulation at all... the 70's and early 80's cars would have put out less pollution per mile and the late 80's cars would have been just as clean due to computer controlled fuel injection.

lazs