Author Topic: meth (Read 2435 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #60 on:** May 08, 2007, 08:14:22 AM »

mt.. Unless you bought crank in quarter pound chunks I was not your dealer.

mav...Don't get me wrong.. I think addicts are pretty much useless and unrecoverable. I hold out little hope for one once they are an addict but...

The way we do it now.. the way we regulate... is making things worse for non addicts... The way we do it now.. you can watch your children like a hawk and they will still become addicts if that is what they want.. they will even be more likely since it is a "forbidden" in my opinion.

Addicts may or may not be able to work. same as now.. it should be up to the employer to hire them or not... they can work a weed whacker or blower.. they are driving now. free up some cops to get em off the road.

I blame no one for what I did but.. yes there is a but... but.. criminalization of drugs made my lifestyle glamorous to many. It also let to a lot of other crime. Fast money and women and parties.. Harleys and hot rods and guns. I would like to see the dealer and the glamor taken out of it..

I would like to see mens hold on women addicts removed. I would like to see families not burglarized by their addict friends and family members... I would like to not see $2000 damage to a car to get $30 for the radio or cell phone for a bag of crank.

The prisons? well.. they might have a different look if drugs were legalized.

In any case... I just don't feel that I can tell people what drugs they can or can't use. I don't think it is possible in any case. We are not winning the war on drugs.. we are not even reducing the number of people affected by drugs... I think the number of people who suffer because of drugs is higher with the war on drugs.

lazs

JB88 · « **Reply #61 on:** May 08, 2007, 08:21:35 AM »

how did you quit lazs?

lazs2 · « **Reply #62 on:** May 08, 2007, 08:21:55 AM »

gunthr... if drugs are legal they need to be dirt cheap. in fact.. I believe that if you declare yourself to be an addict you should get all you want for free.

They are getting sick and wasted now.. that would not change. Some people are drinking themselves to death... that would not change either... some are doing risky recreation.. that will not change... some eat themselves to death.. that would not change.

I am saying that the number of people using drugs would not change. the number of addicts would not change.

If you see someone with heart problems who is 300 lbs.. do you have the right to tell him to put down the big mac or have him fined or jailed? I say no.

sharing needles made drug addicts get all sorts of lingering disease that we are paying for. making needles more available is stopping the practice.

They are among us now. pretending they are not and that we are doing something good by making drugs illegal is BS.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #63 on:** May 08, 2007, 08:30:21 AM »

How did I quit? I hit a personal bottom that would not sound like much in light of some others that I had hit over the years. Maybe it was cumulative... I had done things that I was sure that I would never do.

I got help in AA. The old AA not the thing we have now. the worthless AA that the government is involved in.

I was doing my bit for AA.. taking money from donations and whatnot when the government made their bid to take over..

This guy came up with a piece of paper that was from the court.. all official and all and told me that he needed me to sign it since he was court ordered to be at the meeting.

I told him that he could just go home and sign it himself if he didn't want to be here. That the main theme was anonymity... how could I sign anything and... how would anyone know who signed it? If asked... by anyone.. I could not say who was or wasn't there.

Now.. you have "secretarys" who get great pleasure from checking every line on the court ordered paper... AA meetings are full of people who want to get their court obligation out of the way. Government has ruined a good program.

I made friends there tho that made great sacrafices of their time to help me.

I also believe that there is a god. I believe that a god can give us strength that we do not posses on our own if we ask... And.. that is as religious as I will get.

lazs

Gunthr · « **Reply #64 on:** May 08, 2007, 01:59:18 PM »

Lazs, I have to give a lot of credence to your observations on the behavior of addicts.

but the American government isn't going to be dispensing unlimited free meth, crack and heroin to declared addicts age 21 and older any time soon.

think about it - that would send a strong message of social acceptance or tolerance to young people - the very people that we need to protect. i also disagree that addiction would remain the same or decrease when the government starts passing out free dope. no. i'm not a genius. but i know better than that.

the just-turned 21 year olds you now see walking around the malls with black lipstick and boots with 18 inch soles would be lined up for miles at the free drug clinics - hopefully not too far from the rage clubs so they won't have to drive... geez, i had so many issues at that age, i might have gone and declared on a bad day if they had those free meth or crack clinics (just to get me through the day mind you, I'd stop after that one time) it'd be like a White Sale at K-Mart on Mother's Day.

Lazs, i bet if you could have gotten unlilmited free meth at age 21 you may well have become an addict much earlier causing more harm to your body... you might not be alive now. who knows, if it were free and unlimited today, you might go off the wagon tomorrow, knowing you wouldn't have to hustle and risk prison.

As far as I'm concerned, the status of the "drug war" or the intellectual question of whether the black market would be reduced or not is quite irrelevant. I'm not against peripheral harm reduction such as free rubbers and needles, and plenty of education but the free meth, crack and heroin isn't going to happen. Legalize pot tomorrow, for all I care. but not the truely raveging stuff.

(edited to add the following)

i think the concept is one of those that may sound logical and good on paper, but just won't work well in reality. For example, what do we tell productive members of society who may need expensive drugs to prolong their lives but can't afford them, and they point to the meth addicts getting a wonderful free party ride, but they can't get free drugs to save their lives?

what about the lawyers .... i can envision a whole new field of tort law, liability cases, and disparate treatment discrimination cases... the actual impact on society goes on and on - and its all bad

lazs2 · « **Reply #65 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:26:50 PM »

gunthr.. anyone around me had unlimited free access to drugs. The circle I was in was swimming in em.. I had access to all the PCP and pot for instance that I wanted yet... even me... a garbage can of drug use did not do them.

If you could buy a pound of heroin for $5 would you become an addict?

are you saying that kids don't know which drugs are bad... are addictive?

Kids don't care what you or I approve of... quite the opposite... they rebel against what we say is ok...

No matter what.. there are only going to be so many addicts. Unless we execute em maybe... or some other penalties so harsh we can't ever do it..

They will be with us legal or not and those who are not addictive will not become addicts no matter what (unless a doctor turns them into one).

the other sad fact is that once someone is addicted... the recovery rate will be very small.

lazs

Gunthr · « **Reply #66 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:33:33 PM »

well, im stuck on the notion that the total number of addicts being a constant with no relation at all to supply... that is a problem.

i can't tell you how many hours i've spent 56-ing my associates in the early morning hours discussing this topic... for years... and its still controversial with strong pros and cons.

but im pretty sure we'l never see it.

Quote

If you could buy a pound of heroin for $5 would you become an addict?

first of all, i'd have to decide if I would buy it for $5 because i could make a lot of money. i hate to say it, but at a certain time of my life, if i'd been sure not to get caught, maybe. then maybe i'd of tried it. i honestly don't know.

lazs2 · « **Reply #67 on:** May 08, 2007, 02:48:42 PM »

no... I meant if anyone including you could buy a pound of heroin for $5 would you become an addict?

I don't know the answers to the problem either... I assume that there would be no more or less addicts because I have never seen the war on drugs keep anyone from getting them if they wanted... in fact... I have seen people try em just to be rebelious and cool.

I have also seen people try em and not like em... like me with PCP and pot. Or... like everyone you know is with booze. Some like it to the point they are hopeless drunks... some like it maybe too much and the vast majority can take it or leave it.

For some.. the first taste of crank is all it takes. For most.. it is all they need to decide it is not for them. Not everyone gets drunk no matter how easy or cheap it is... even when it is free most turn it down.

In the end tho... I simply don't feel I have the right to tell you how to live your life when it doesn't affect me (working with you or driving on the road with you for instance when you are loaded).

I can't tell you what to eat even if it means that you will become a medical problem in the future... I can't tell you to wear a seatbelt or a helmet or what kind of dog you can have.

It is not my right to do so. Truth be known... lots of things you do probly are bad for me in some financial way...or will be. Too bad..

lazs

Jackal1 · « **Reply #68 on:** May 08, 2007, 03:02:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Maverick

Lastly can someone please explain to me exactly what the benefit to society an addict is?

If they are any good at what they do Doctors can be pretty useful at times. More than a small percentage of them are addicts.

As for the original question of what you can do to help, the answer is absolutely nothing until the decision is made by the person in question.
You reach a point to where you either make the decision of "enough is enough" or "screw it".
If you want out...YOU get yourself out. Gut it up, yank on the bootstraps and do it. All the blubbering in the world, rehabs, programs.....and even reality TV shows don`t cut it.
You either make the decision or not.

lazs2 · « **Reply #69 on:** May 09, 2007, 08:48:59 AM »

all the sympathy in the world won't help you quit... all the tax based programs in the world won't help you quit.

You just have to do it.

I would have suggested AA 15 years ago but now... it is a waste. The government has screwed it up to the point of being useless or worse.

lazs

Speed55 · « **Reply #70 on:** May 09, 2007, 09:55:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
no... I meant if anyone including you could buy a pound of heroin for $5 would you become an addict?

I don't know the answers to the problem either... I assume that there would be no more or less addicts because I have never seen the war on drugs keep anyone from getting them if they wanted... in fact... I have seen people try em just to be rebelious and cool.

lazs

If the govt legalizes this stuff there's gonna be alot of dead teenagers out there.

The way i see it is this. When i was 16-17, and started hanging with the wrong people who were mostly older druggie musicians, I got my hands on all sorts of crap, and I was a rebeleious oddball. I lost a few friends over the years, and actually saved one that started to O.D. right in front of me.

I've been in nyc clubs and seen kids lying dead on the lounge chairs, and watched the bouncers throw them out on the street so they wouldn't get in trouble.

If this stuff becomes mainstream, the same way that your average teenager might try booze, or cigs, he/she might try something super addictive and deadly because now it's legal.

How about this..

What if the govt gave a nationwide warning to drug dealers telling them if they are caught with over a certain amount of junk, that a new law allows the death penalty? yeah i know, won't happen, but i'd like to see it happen. Why legalize potentially deadly chemicals, when you can just remove them completely?

The users can be jailed and treated.

Edit: to add on to the new law above. If you are caught by law enforcement trying to smuggle drugs into this county, the cop automatically has the right to execute you. Quick phone call to a judge, or using a laptop to send picture evidence, and the judge gives the ok.
All drugs confiscated are immediately destroyed on the premises.

I saw judge dread again not to long ago, lol

indy007 · « **Reply #71 on:** May 09, 2007, 10:07:53 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Speed55
How about this..

What if the govt gave a nationwide warning to drug dealers telling them if they are caught with over a certain amount of junk, that a new law allows the death penalty? yeah i know, won't happen, but i'd like to see it happen. Why legalize potentially deadly chemicals, when you can just remove them completely?

The users can be jailed and treated.

Edit: to add on to the new law above. If you are caught by law enforcement trying to smuggle drugs into this county, the cop automatically has the right to execute you. Quick phone call to a judge, or using a laptop to send picture evidence, and the judge gives the ok.
All drugs confiscated are immediately destroyed on the premises.

I saw judge dread again not to long ago, lol

You can't remove them completely.

They have the death penalty for smuggling drugs in other countries.

People still smuggle them.

john9001 · « **Reply #72 on:** May 09, 2007, 10:31:36 AM »

you can't stop smuggling or dealing, the mark up on illegal drugs is too high, from production to street is something like 1500 or 15,000 percent, i forget. If the profits are high enough people will risk even death.

prohibition made billionaires out of criminals and the "war on drugs" is doing the same.

SirLoin · « **Reply #73 on:** May 09, 2007, 11:03:26 AM »

i think certain "drugs" should be banned..Crack,cocaine,PCP,cigartettes..etc.

Pot,mushrooms,alcohol..should be legal...Organic substances(i'm not going to bring God into this)

Like guns...some are recreational(pistols,semi-auto rifles) and some need to be restricted(fully automatic weapons).

indy007 · « **Reply #74 on:** May 09, 2007, 11:15:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SirLoin
i think certain "drugs" should be banned..Crack,cocaine,PCP,cigartettes..etc.

Pot,mushrooms,alcohol..should be legal...Organic substances(i'm not going to bring God into this)

Like guns...some are recreational(pistols,semi-auto rifles) and some need to be restricted(fully automatic weapons).

Tobacco & Coca plants are not organic?

Interesting...